Thoughts on MTB prices: Then & Now

BigAl

I was sorting through some old box files earlier and happened upon the receipt for my first MTB.

It was a '95 Kona Lava Dome and cost me £579. Got me wondering what you could buy for an equivalent (inflation adjusted) price now.

But first a little about the Kona. It was a lovely bike with a really top steel frame (which I still have, though unbuilt), the rest of it is long gone. A summary of the spec:

Rigid fork (Kona P2)
Generic Canti brakes (you really wouldn't want these on your bike now, Rubez excepted)
STX (approx equivalent to Deore, maybe just below) 7 speed transmission
Threaded quill stem (though fortunately 1 & 1/8")
Gripshift shifters
Kona branded wheels, tyres, stem, bars, post etc

I reckon £579 then is approx £900 now (based on approx 2.75% average inflation)

I'm no expert on the current market, but do know that a Voodoo Bizango with reasonable air forks, hydro brakes and 9 speed can be had for £600. Various Boardmans (and others) full into the sub £900 pot too. Hells bells, you can buy a 2013, 26" Anthem with an RS Recon air fork, Shimano hydros and 9 speed for £999 :shock:

Now I loved my Kona. Still do, the frame is lovely and still rides well with a short (80mm) suspension fork. It taught me a lot about riding (rigid forks and cantis are unforgiving!). But, sentiment aside, a modern bike for £900 will wipe the floor with it, the addition of a suspension fork and hydro discs being the main upside.

So while prices may seem high (they did to me when I returned to MTBing last year) value is better than it was. Except top end pricing which has gone mad.

Still keeping my Kona though

Angus Young

I'm not even sure bikes are really that expansive even as you move up the price ranges. Oh, they certainly seem like they are, but when I then think about what I've spent on other hobbies... I had about 7K worth of dive gear when I was scuba diving and so did my other half. And you had to pay to get on a plane to use that stuff unless you like it dark and cold. So that's 7K of kit I'd use about 4 times a year. I spent nearly 3K on a paraglider and the number of days a year that conditions are right for that can seem few and far between in this country. Even for climbing, which is a relatively simple sport from a kit point of view, I probably racked up a grand's worth of gear by the time I'd been through 4 pairs of shoes to find ones I could wear and the millions of karabinas and other kit I amassed. And then there's cars... over the course of 3 years I spent about 75K being a member of an exotic car club. So when I think about all that, a 4K mountain bike doesn't seem that expensive after all. And that's for something I can use every day, straight from my front door.

njee20

Except top end pricing which has gone mad.

Yes and no, that's where most of the innovation comes after all - it then trickles down to the lower end.

A 2000 S-Works Stumpjumper FSR was £2600, the forks were shit, the rear shock was awful, they pedalled badly, it was flexy, it had v-brakes, it wasn't that light (I think my 2001 one was about 26lbs) etc etc. The only carbon bits were on the brake arch of the hideously overpriced Manitou MARS forks.

Yes, ok a new S-Works Epic as the direct descendant is £7000, but you get far more bike for your money, and even the £4000 Epic (a fairer comparison from a like-for-like basis) is a far better bike. Except the 2000 S-Works had DT 240 hubs, don't get those on <£3k bikes now!

brucie45

Angus Young wrote:

a 4K mountain bike doesn't seem that expensive after all.

It does to me and will to alot.

Angus Young

brucie45 wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

a 4K mountain bike doesn't seem that expensive after all.

It does to me and will to alot.

You have to take that sentence in the context of the rest of my post and the point I'm making is that there's plenty of pastimes that will cost you just as much or more. So, in today's world, there's nothing exceptional about the cost of bikes.

Giraffoto

Don't knock rigid forks, it's not only lunatics who like them. At least, I hope it's not only lunatics who like them

mattrixdesign2

You certainly get more "bang for your buck" these days, £500 will get you a very capable bike.

What has changed, is with regards to groupsets, you see more bikes now at the higher end of pricing, but with some mediocre groupset and/or bits of groupsets missing (chainsets etc), this is perhaps even more evident with road bikes, Sora etc on £700+ bikes! Its decent stuff, but I would expect more for £700+.

brucie45

Angus Young wrote:

brucie45 wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

a 4K mountain bike doesn't seem that expensive after all.

It does to me and will to alot.

You have to take that sentence in the context of the rest of my post and the point I'm making is that there's plenty of pastimes that will cost you just as much or more. So, in today's world, there's nothing exceptional about the cost of bikes.

I think it's more a matter of opinion or your peception. What may not seem to be expensive to you, maybe very expensive to to others. Comparing a hobby ie. mountain biking, with more expensive hobbies doesn't make mountain biking/bikes any less expensive. Using your logic, if you look at it the other way, cheap hobbies ie. swimming, makes a 4k mountain bike look massively expensive.

Angus Young

brucie45 wrote:

I think it's more a matter of opinion or your peception. What may not seem to be expensive to you, maybe very expensive to to others. Comparing a hobby ie. mountain biking, with more expensive hobbies doesn't make mountain biking/bikes any less expensive. Using your logic, if you look at it the other way, cheap hobbies ie. swimming, makes a 4k mountain bike look massively expensive.

I'm not saying a 4K bike isn't expensive. That's a lot of money for most people, including me. Just that, in the wider scheme of things, bike pricing is not exceptional.

Chunkers1980

It is when running costs (i.e. straight from your door) are so low.

Angus Young

Chunkers1980 wrote:

It is when running costs (i.e. straight from your door) are so low.

No sure why that's relevant.

lostboysaint

They are ludicrously expensive. You only have to look at what trials and motorcross bikes cost (with engines!) to realise.

njee20

lostboysaint wrote:

They are ludicrously expensive. You only have to look at what trials and motorcross bikes cost (with engines!) to realise.

But you only have to look at supercars to realise how cheap they are.

Apples:oranges comparison. Economies of scale and what not start to play a huge factor.

kajjal

In the past few years MTB specs have been dropping as the price of MTB's has been rising. This is a lot worse for road bikes. The price of accessories has also accelerated upwards as well. Manufacturers are now reaching the point where price rises relative to specs are costing sales, an example of this is the 2014 bike Specialized price drop.

There are still some very good deals for bikes and accessories in the sales but you need to know prices and specs well. The bikes now are better than those from the early 1990's etc which had very poor brakes and no suspension. Still good fun to ride though.

lostboysaint

njee20 wrote:

lostboysaint wrote:

They are ludicrously expensive. You only have to look at what trials and motorcross bikes cost (with engines!) to realise.

But you only have to look at supercars to realise how cheap they are.

Apples:oranges comparison. Economies of scale and what not start to play a huge factor.

Economies of scale? Do you know how small the off road motorcycle market is compared to the MTB market?

The comparison is very relevant. Frame, wheels, drivetrain, brakes, suspension, seat, handlebars etc. Except that on one it's carrying more weight so the components have a much tougher life and are still required to be as light as possible. And yet manages to put an engine, gearbox and all the ancillary components in for a similar price to the one that has fresh air in the frame.

njee20

Go on then, how much smaller?

I can't find stats by manufacturer for push bikes, but Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha each made c120-150,000 motorbikes >50cc in 2013. So that excludes crappy cheap ones - what's a cheap 125cc motorbike gonna cost? Say £3000? You honestly reckon that more >£3k MTBs are sold than that?

Worth noting as well that for all 3 manufacturers >250cc is the largest sector, so call that >£5000? In fact, we're talking c300,000 in that bracket, from those 3 manufacturers alone, and there will be many of those >£8000-10000. Spesh make a few thousand S-Works bikes worldwide, at most. They change them every year too, longer production runs on motorbikes.

Stats from here.

mattham

I bought a Specialized Stumpjumper in 1988 for £750, it was rigid but it had XT everything. Inflation adjusted its over £1600.

I also bought an Orange Aluminium O in 1991 with Full XT, Pace RC30's, USE seat post, Flight Ti Saddle etc.

It cost £1100, which inflation adjusted is approx £2k.

Inflation figures are according to:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bill ... -1900.html

These were pretty high end bikes at the time, so to be honest, although £2k is a lot for a bike in reality they may be about the same price as they have always been as you could spend £2k on an XT equipped hardtail today if you wanted to.

supersonic

In the past few years MTB specs have been dropping as the price of MTB's has been rising.

This is true - but the comparative specs now better perform. The trickle down effect mean that todays Alivio functions as well as XT from just a few years back. But yes, even taking that into account the last few years have been bad. I think the golden era was about 2008 - £400 quid from the big names was getting you a good frame, hydraulic fork and brakes, Alivio kit. 1k was Reba forks XT, and lightweight kit.

lawman

supersonic wrote:

In the past few years MTB specs have been dropping as the price of MTB's has been rising.

This is true - but the comparative specs now better perform. The trickle down effect mean that todays Alivio functions as well as XT from just a few years back. But yes, even taking that into account the last few years have been bad. I think the golden era was about 2008 - £400 quid from the big names was getting you a good frame, hydraulic fork and brakes, Alivio kit. 1k was Reba forks XT, and lightweight kit.

The late 2000's were certainly good times for bike prices. In 2006 I built a custom kinesis maxlight with xt/lx and decent fork/wheels for under a grand iirc and when I was looking to get a susser £2K got you a very nice bike indeed, zesty at the time got full xt, fox forks (back when they were worth the extra) and a carbon swing arm for that much! The equivilant model now is much more expensive. Overall though while I certainly wouldn't complain if prices fell it is what it is and if I have to pay £xxx for the parts I want I'm happy to do so rather than pay less for something that I don't want.

foy

Yes you are bang on supersonic in 2008 you could get a rockhopper with a decent spec for £600, but these days you dont even get anywhere near the same spec for £1000.

foy

Yes you are bang on supersonic, in 2008 you could get a rockhopper with a decent spec for £600, but these days you dont even get anywhere near the same spec for £1000. That is an increase of 67% in just 6 years for a downgraded spec, i wonder why?

P-Jay

I'm not sure it's been that gradual - in short between 2008 / 2009 prices jumped and spec fell - the more gradual stuff you could probably put down to inflation, but in simple terms when the banks fell, so did our currency compared to the currencies of the far east where 90% of this stuff is made. You could argue that prices remained the same, it was just our money wasn't worth as much.

Shimano bless 'em seem to me to be the only parts maker who's actually dropped their prices in the last few years in-line with currency - I certainly remember being told about 2 years ago that an XT cassette was £90 rrp (but I could have it for 70), now they're £50rrp (but you can have them for 35).

I'm still a bit shocked at the price of complete bikes - I paid £2200 for my old Enduro in 2006, to buy a similar spec Spicy (which were cheaper than equivalent Enduros) in 2012 it cost me £3300 or 50% more, the current one is only £200 more, but doesn't have such a good spec.

lostboysaint

njee20 wrote:

Go on then, how much smaller?

I can't find stats by manufacturer for push bikes, but Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha each made c120-150,000 motorbikes >50cc in 2013. So that excludes crappy cheap ones - what's a cheap 125cc motorbike gonna cost? Say £3000? You honestly reckon that more >£3k MTBs are sold than that?

Worth noting as well that for all 3 manufacturers >250cc is the largest sector, so call that >£5000? In fact, we're talking c300,000 in that bracket, from those 3 manufacturers alone, and there will be many of those >£8000-10000. Spesh make a few thousand S-Works bikes worldwide, at most. They change them every year too, longer production runs on motorbikes.

Stats from here.

Who said anything about the big four? Perhaps it would help your argument if you knew

We're talking about Sherco, Montesa, Gas Gas etc. Proper off-road bikes that would be a direct comparison with a mountain bike. £5k gets you a world championship trials bike. Does £5k get you a WC winning MTB?

£6k gets you a way overpriced KTbooM 200EXC. Does £6k get you a WC winning DH bike for example? (You could ride the KTM down anything that the DH boys do!)

Oh, and don't think it's just me saying it. There's plenty of component manufacturers who can't believe what they can charge in the cycling world compared to what they're paid for their kit in the motorcycle world.

njee20

We're talking about Sherco, Montesa, Gas Gas etc. Proper off-road bikes that would be a direct comparison with a mountain bike. £5k gets you a world championship trials bike. Does £5k get you a WC winning MTB?

Aaaah sorry, you only wanted to choose the brands that supported your comments. Why would they be a direct comparison with mountain bikes? None of them make mountain bikes.

Montesa = Honda...
A Sherco SE 3.0i 4t Racing is £7450

I got bored of looking at that point. You didn't state 'trials', you said offroad. £5k will get you a top trials MTB. Stop comparing apples with oranges.

£6k gets you a way overpriced KTbooM 200EXC. Does £6k get you a WC winning DH bike for example? (You could ride the KTM down anything that the DH boys do!)

You could drive a Nissan Micra round the Nurburgring, doesn't mean that there's no point in building supercars :roll:

What makes the KTM "overpriced" at £6k, but not the DH bike? Surely that contradicts your own argument, particularly as the 200EXC is mid-range, so let's compare that to an SLX equipped Specialized, rather than a World Cup winning DH bike... Plenty of other KTMs are nearing £8000.

If you want to get into World Cup winning DH bikes then let's compare to FIM Motocross WC bikes, reckon you'll get a winning one for £8000? Your point is hugely flawed!

They're two hugely different markets.

lostboysaint

The thread asked for a comparison on prices. The comparison is simple. They are two wheeled vehicles for getting offroad. One requires pedal power and is vastly overpriced, one has an engine AS WELL AS everything else that the other uses and yet is a similar price. It's a very easy comparison to everyone (as I said, it's one made in the industry a LOT) but you it seems.

Chunkers1980

The trouble is with the comparison is that the engine shifts the stuff so every gram is not as important as it is in bikes.

njee20

But you can get a bike that you can ride off road for £50. You can get a good one for £500. Saying "a run of the mill off road motorbike costs more than this custom built MTB" is a stupid comparison.

No one in the (cycling) industry is looking at motorbikes for value comparisons, perhaps the opposite is true, but it's still a bloody stupid one, why not look at cars? You can get a Tata Nano for less than your Sherco GasGas 752-9348XBQQQ2 whatever, that's got way more going on than a motorbike.

Or you could buy loads of bread, that'll keep you alive, way better than a motorbike, which will do the exact opposite!

Angus Young

njee20 wrote:

But you can get a bike that you can ride off road for £50. You can get a good one for £500. Saying "a run of the mill off road motorbike costs more than this custom built MTB" is a stupid comparison.

No one in the (cycling) industry is looking at motorbikes for value comparisons, perhaps the opposite is true, but it's still a bloody stupid one, why not look at cars? You can get a Tata Nano for less than your Sherco GasGas 752-9348XBQQQ2 whatever, that's got way more going on than a motorbike.

Or you could buy loads of bread, that'll keep you alive, way better than a motorbike, which will do the exact opposite!

Now that's silly because the bread has 4 wheels and the car will go off before you've eaten all of it. Didn't think that through, did you...