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Can you identify this Shimano part please?

littledove44littledove44 Posts: 871
edited May 2014 in Workshop
I recently fitted an 11 speed Shimano Ultegra groupset.

Being a muppet I got rid of all the stupid packaging and kept the bits in a box till ready to do the job.

At the end I found this packet of two small metal things. They are 10mm square and on one side appear to have a sticky pad.

I am not sure which part they come from or what they are used for. Neither is the LBS mechanic so we didn't fit them.

I went through all the documentation that came with the stuff but no mention there either.

Thanks.

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Posts

  • Clearly a tough one. 11 views and no replies.
  • schlepcyclingschlepcycling Posts: 1,603
    They're adhesive pads to protect the frame against the rotation angle screw if you have a braze on front mech.

    If you use a band on front mech they aren't required as you can just rotate the mech to get the position right in relation to the chainrings, if however you're using a braze on front mech there's a rotation angle screw that sets the angle of the mech to the chainrings by pushing against the frame and you stick these little pads to the frame to stop it getting damaged by the screw.

    Check out figs 3-7 on this guide http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/di2-shimano-electronic-intelligent-system-installation-1
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • Have you accessed the TechDoc for the groupset you bought and searched through the exploded diagrams;

    http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs/bl ... ID=klAiq7l

    ?
  • borisfaceborisface Posts: 273
    Is it Ultegra Di2 if so it might be no 3 here
    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techd ... 779355.pdf
  • They're adhesive pads to protect the frame against the rotation angle screw if you have a braze on front mech.

    If you use a band on front mech they aren't required as you can just rotate the mech to get the position right in relation to the chainrings, if however you're using a braze on front mech there's a rotation angle screw that sets the angle of the mech to the chainrings by pushing against the frame and you stick these little pads to the frame to stop it getting damaged by the screw.

    Check out figs 3-7 on this guide http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/di2-shimano-electronic-intelligent-system-installation-1
    Perfect, thanks.
  • Actually, the mech I have is a different shape. No way can it rotate so the screw would be superfluous.

    b5c0c968c87e1cf5cb80bc788bc0708c.jpg
  • bernithebikerbernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    I'm not sure you're understanding this correctly.

    Schlepcycling was right.

    I have the a DA9000 front mech that uses the same principle ,and you SHOULD be using these pads. They provide a secondary support to the mech and help give it the stiffness that makes shifting so good.

    You should adjust the little screw thing so that it presses against this pad and does it's job correctly.
  • I'm not sure you're understanding this correctly.

    Schlepcycling was right.

    I have the a DA9000 front mech that uses the same principle ,and you SHOULD be using these pads. They provide a secondary support to the mech and help give it the stiffness that makes shifting so good.

    You should adjust the little screw thing so that it presses against this pad and does it's job correctly.

    Thanks. I have just been back to the LBS. I definitely do not need it. The shape of the braze on fitting is such that the mech cannot rotate, and the shape of the frame is such that the screw cannot reach the frame anyway.

    Is da9000 exactly the same as the 6800?
  • The shape of the braze on fitting is such that the mech cannot rotate

    How can the FD be aligned with the chainrings then?
  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    The shape of the braze on fitting is such that the mech cannot rotate

    How can the FD be aligned with the chainrings then?

    The OPs FD isn't Di2 ... ?
  • drlodgedrlodge Posts: 4,825
    Slowbike wrote:
    The shape of the braze on fitting is such that the mech cannot rotate

    How can the FD be aligned with the chainrings then?

    The OPs FD isn't Di2 ... ?

    Exactly. Looks similar to my Campag FD setup, the FD can be rotated on the mounted then screwed up tight to keep it in position.
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  • drlodge wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    The shape of the braze on fitting is such that the mech cannot rotate

    How can the FD be aligned with the chainrings then?

    The OPs FD isn't Di2 ... ?

    Di2 or not isn't relevant any FD needs to be aligned with the chainrings - mechanical or electronic.

    Exactly. Looks similar to my Campag FD setup, the FD can be rotated on the mounted then screwed up tight to keep it in position.


    So it can be rotated then - which makes sense - it was the statement that it can't be rotated that puzzled me.
  • bernithebikerbernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    I'm not sure you're understanding this correctly.

    Schlepcycling was right.

    I have the a DA9000 front mech that uses the same principle ,and you SHOULD be using these pads. They provide a secondary support to the mech and help give it the stiffness that makes shifting so good.

    You should adjust the little screw thing so that it presses against this pad and does it's job correctly.

    Thanks. I have just been back to the LBS. I definitely do not need it. The shape of the braze on fitting is such that the mech cannot rotate, and the shape of the frame is such that the screw cannot reach the frame anyway.

    Is da9000 exactly the same as the 6800?

    Well, maybe there is a difference in da9000 and 6800, I don't know, but your seat tube and braze on clamp look very similar to mine, and my screw/pad works fine.

    My understanding is that Shimano designed these front mechs to have an additional support point, which is this little screw, and it also helps alignment.

    I'm kind of surprised that you can't get it to function as per instructions. The mech will work without it, but it will work better with.

    And I agree with the others that the mech CAN rotate on the clamp, it has a domed washer to allow this.
  • Had another look at it this evening. The washer is domed, but it just matches the curve on the mounting itself and the curve on the face of the FD. It's quite different to DA9000.

    There is no rotational adjustment on mine. Once done up to the correct torque setting the whole thing does not move at all.

    Good job the fitting is in line with the chain ring!

    Other bikes may be different, but this one works perfectly thankfully. Just done my first ride with it all this evening. Love it.
  • bernithebikerbernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    Had another look at it this evening. The washer is domed, but it just matches the curve on the mounting itself and the curve on the face of the FD. It's quite different to DA9000.

    There is no rotational adjustment on mine. Once done up to the correct torque setting the whole thing does not move at all.

    Good job the fitting is in line with the chain ring!

    Other bikes may be different, but this one works perfectly thankfully. Just done my first ride with it all this evening. Love it.

    I still think you're missing something.
    It's quite normal that once done up tight the front mech doesn't move; it's then clamped down, that's the idea.
    You position it correctly with the bolt loose, so that a) it lines up parallel to the chainrings, and b) at the right height to the big chainring, and c) so that the extra screw touches the pad on the seat tube.
    If you're not using the screw and pad, you're missing out on some of the functionality of that mech.

    I guess that it will work OK as is, so I guess if you're happy, leave it like that.
  • Had another look at it this evening. The washer is domed, but it just matches the curve on the mounting itself and the curve on the face of the FD. It's quite different to DA9000.

    There is no rotational adjustment on mine. Once done up to the correct torque setting the whole thing does not move at all.

    Good job the fitting is in line with the chain ring!

    Other bikes may be different, but this one works perfectly thankfully. Just done my first ride with it all this evening. Love it.

    I still think you're missing something.
    It's quite normal that once done up tight the front mech doesn't move; it's then clamped down, that's the idea.
    You position it correctly with the bolt loose, so that a) it lines up parallel to the chainrings, and b) at the right height to the big chainring, and c) so that the extra screw touches the pad on the seat tube.
    If you're not using the screw and pad, you're missing out on some of the functionality of that mech.

    I guess that it will work OK as is, so I guess if you're happy, leave it like that.
    I just don't see how that is possible. With the shape of the dome washer, the fitting on the bike, and the mech itself it aligns itself. If you loosen it off the tightening process aligns it. There is no way of changing it. The tightening process pulls it into position and there is no way of getting it to go anywhere other than where it wants to go. You can adjust the up/down, but side to side the slot has no room for adjustment.
  • bernithebikerbernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    Had another look at it this evening. The washer is domed, but it just matches the curve on the mounting itself and the curve on the face of the FD. It's quite different to DA9000.

    There is no rotational adjustment on mine. Once done up to the correct torque setting the whole thing does not move at all.

    Good job the fitting is in line with the chain ring!

    Other bikes may be different, but this one works perfectly thankfully. Just done my first ride with it all this evening. Love it.

    I still think you're missing something.
    It's quite normal that once done up tight the front mech doesn't move; it's then clamped down, that's the idea.
    You position it correctly with the bolt loose, so that a) it lines up parallel to the chainrings, and b) at the right height to the big chainring, and c) so that the extra screw touches the pad on the seat tube.
    If you're not using the screw and pad, you're missing out on some of the functionality of that mech.

    I guess that it will work OK as is, so I guess if you're happy, leave it like that.
    I just don't see how that is possible. With the shape of the dome washer, the fitting on the bike, and the mech itself it aligns itself. If you loosen it off the tightening process aligns it. There is no way of changing it. The tightening process pulls it into position and there is no way of getting it to go anywhere other than where it wants to go. You can adjust the up/down, but side to side the slot has no room for adjustment.

    OK, so I just checked the Ultegra installation docs, and it's the exact same idea as Dura Ace. It says;

    "If installing the front derailleur to a brazed-on type frame, a backup plate must be attached to the seat tube. Always be sure to install the backup plate in order to prevent damage to the frame from the pressure applied by the support bolt of the front derailleur."

    So, personally, I'd prefer to have the pad in place, as if the screw does push on your seat tube, it could damage it.

    Also, you can tighten up your front mech so it's not parallel to the rings - I know, 'cos I've done it. You have to loosen off, twist slightly, then retighten, so there is adjustability there. Same basic principle as for brake blocks, toe-in, toe-out, etc.

    If you don't want to use the pad, make sure the 2mm screw is wound fully out so it can't touch the frame.
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