Bike fit upselling

Miles253
Miles253 Posts: 535
edited May 2014 in Road general
So I'm going to book in a bike fit, either a BG fit or a Retul fit from one of my two lbs's . I'm a little worried that if I do have changes that need making, I'll be forced to make said changes then and there. Thus disallowing me to pick the parts I want changing to. Though this is partly an issue of cost, it's more about ending up with expensive parts that weren't how I wanted them on my bike. Am I likely to be out under lots of pressure to buy the parts after my fit? Does anybody have experience of this?

Mainly this applies to stems and insoles and posts I guess. Which you can always get cheaper online. I'm not interested in the support my Lbs argument, they are getting enough for the fit.

Thanks :)
Canyon Roadlite AL-Shamal Wheels-Centaur/Veloce Group
Canyon Ult CF SL- Spin Koppenberg-Ultegra group
«1

Comments

  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    Possibly although it's more likely with the Retul fit. I'd suggest foregoing both and going to a place with a proper fitter as opposed to one that just advertises a fit system.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Miles253
    Miles253 Posts: 535
    What classifies as a proper fitter? Like a biomechanics expert? You saying an lbs is gonna be an inferior fit?
    Canyon Roadlite AL-Shamal Wheels-Centaur/Veloce Group
    Canyon Ult CF SL- Spin Koppenberg-Ultegra group
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I had a retul fit at PX when I was buying my bike - so they did the swapping of the bits then - TBH it was just a different stem and slightly different bars - and there was no cost for it.

    They should give you a print out of what your angles are - so you just need to be firm if they try to upsell to you ?
  • Miles253
    Miles253 Posts: 535
    Yeah true, thing is, surely they will fit stuff to test me on it, awkward to get them to take it off so I can leave! Perhaps I'm over thinking it.
    Canyon Roadlite AL-Shamal Wheels-Centaur/Veloce Group
    Canyon Ult CF SL- Spin Koppenberg-Ultegra group
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    Miles253 wrote:
    What classifies as a proper fitter? Like a biomechanics expert? You saying an lbs is gonna be an inferior fit?

    Your fit is only as good as 2 things; the fitter and the feedback you give to said fitter. Fit systems are simply toolkits that need to be leveraged accordingly and they don't replace experience and flexibility in regards to problem solving. A biomechanics expert is helpful, but only if they specialize in cycling applications.

    Confident fitters will guarantee their fit and know the there is no one approach that works for everyone. I know the Spec BG fit system. It can provide a good baseline but lacks flexibility. Retul is even worse as the tendency is to put the saddle too high and has an over-reliance on KOPS.

    That said, for 90% of people these out of the box fits can be decent enough (I'm a 10 percenter so I've don't a silly amount of work to get my positions to where they need to be).
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Miles253
    Miles253 Posts: 535
    Alright good advice, though short of recommendations, of which I have a few, I've no way of knowing how good a fitter is. And even then, it might not work for me.
    Canyon Roadlite AL-Shamal Wheels-Centaur/Veloce Group
    Canyon Ult CF SL- Spin Koppenberg-Ultegra group
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    Adrian Timmis is an obvious choice. Chris Newman from The Triathlon Shop in Bristol is also quite good.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Miles253
    Miles253 Posts: 535
    Grill wrote:
    Adrian Timmis is an obvious choice. Chris Newman from The Triathlon Shop in Bristol is also quite good.

    You say this like I should know who that is?
    Canyon Roadlite AL-Shamal Wheels-Centaur/Veloce Group
    Canyon Ult CF SL- Spin Koppenberg-Ultegra group
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    Cadence Sport. Had you done any research into bike fits you'd know exactly who he is.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Miles253
    Miles253 Posts: 535
    Okay, helpful...

    I don't see how I was supposed to naturally arrive at Cadence sports website through a few googlings of the key words, not to mention you have no idea where I live.

    Anyway going off topic...massively
    Canyon Roadlite AL-Shamal Wheels-Centaur/Veloce Group
    Canyon Ult CF SL- Spin Koppenberg-Ultegra group
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    A bad fit can be worse than no fit. For the cost it's worth travelling to see someone competent.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    Where do you live? I used www.thebikewhisperer.co.uk and recommend them.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • themogulman
    themogulman Posts: 167
    Timmis is God
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    If you want impartial advice you need to go to an impartial advisor!

    I'm pretty sure that if you get a bike fit done in a LBS, there's a much higher probability you'll be told you need new parts than if you get it done by a 3rd party who is selling nothing but the bike fit. Even if the fitter intends to be impartial and honest with you he'll have a tendency, when it's a judgment call, to come down on the side that makes him more profit.

    I got a fit done last year by an independent fitter. He made a bundle of tweaks but I ended up very close to my start position. The only significant change he recommended was a 10mm change in stem length. He had a full range of his own stems with him to swap in for fitting but wasn't selling anything. So I went away having had a full fit, knowing what stem to install, and confident everything else was about right. If I'd been in a shop I'd have come away with a sneaking doubt about whether my stem was really 10mm too long or did they just want to sell me something.

    So, I happily bought the exact stem I wanted at a good price and swapped it in the following week. Job done.
  • corvus13
    corvus13 Posts: 28
    I've recently had a Retul fit at Planet X where (against all my instincts) the fitter said my stem needed to be 20mm longer to get my back angle within limits. No offer of a stem at all. Just got a stem of Ebay and I've never been as comfortable on a bike despite my increasing archaic bones.
  • t4tomo
    t4tomo Posts: 2,643
    The limitations of all bike fits is that it's not an exact science and really you need to try stuff out and tinker, which isn't possible in a 2 3 4 hour fitting. So what you get is a best guess. Ideally you want the fitter to be around for a week as you tinker and try different things on a ride.
    Bianchi Infinito CV
    Bianchi Via Nirone 7 Ultegra
    Brompton S Type
    Carrera Vengeance Ultimate Ltd
    Gary Fisher Aquila '98
    Front half of a Viking Saratoga Tandem
  • LegendLust
    LegendLust Posts: 1,022
    to the OP - if you're based near London this guy is very good

    http://www.velosolutions.eu/
  • BrandonA
    BrandonA Posts: 553
    t4tomo wrote:
    The limitations of all bike fits is that it's not an exact science and really you need to try stuff out and tinker, which isn't possible in a 2 3 4 hour fitting. So what you get is a best guess. Ideally you want the fitter to be around for a week as you tinker and try different things on a ride.

    And for all components to be available during this period.

    All you can get is the best fit for the components that are on hand.

    And that is assuming that you have the most suitable frame size for your physical size and capability
  • debeli
    debeli Posts: 583
    I know people who swear by the benefits of a good bike-fit... and many who do fine without one.

    The bike-fit 'industry' is a fairly new one and as in similar cases, claims will be made by and for its exponents which may slightly overstate the case. Customers of the industry are often people who have not ridden for long and may equate a large bill with something that is somehow prerequisite for the serious athlete.

    I and my three kids (20, 18, 15) ride road bikes (and other stuff) and I'm only just nearing the stage when I do not need constantly to adjust one or another bike. I've been riding since the days when the chap as Holdsworths had a look at you, sat you on a showroom bike and said "A 21-inch frame should suit you". Few people thought about crank length or quill dimensions. But now we're all racers and 'serious' cycling has become a sort of exercise in social cock-measuring. Up to a point.

    Before that happened, the grey-haired luminaries suggested this:

    1. Set saddle height by inside leg. There will be some variance from the accepted norm caused by injury or personal preference, but start in the right place and make tiny, tiny adjustments until you're where you want to be.

    2. Then think about the fore-aft of your saddle. I still use the plum line from the patella gouing through the pedal fulcrum with cranks horizontal. It seems accurate and is very simple.

    Then think about bars. Modern stems (threadless headsets) have made changes easier and cheaper to effect. Bar height depends on usage, flexibility and comfort. Stem length can helpfully be set (initially) by trying to ensure that the front hub is obscured by the handlebar when you're on the hoods. With three children, you end up with a nice little selection of stems from 50mm to 110mm.

    Crank length is partly down to size and partly to preference. Cleat position seems (and is) important, but is often arrived at after much trial and error. I pay quite a lot of attention to the rotation (angle) of the handlebar and the position at which I tighten the levers. If you have a good frame and it feels right, that's about it.

    A Turbo helps a lot with set-up, as you can try out each setting without sodding about too much and making endless trips round the block. Another very helpful thing is a club with some older riders in it. They often have little tips to share after riding behind you or watching during a turbo session.

    I do not knock bike-fit, but I do know many, many very keen riders who have never used it and never felt the need. Some of them are not at all slow, although I cannot say that of myself.

    I hope the OP finds the bike-fit professional he's looking for, but I would caution that there are other solutions.
  • jazgill
    jazgill Posts: 98
    drlodge wrote:
    Where do you live? I used http://www.thebikewhisperer.co.uk and recommend them.

    Me too, Highly recommended.
  • jazgill wrote:
    drlodge wrote:
    Where do you live? I used http://www.thebikewhisperer.co.uk and recommend them.

    Me too, Highly recommended.

    Sounds great but his costs are insane. My lawyer charges less Lol.

    There's guy in Hertford n London I hear is good and isn't a shop.
    I think shops are biased to sell you things
    London2Brighton Challange 100k!
    http://www.justgiving.com/broxbourne-runners
  • spankwilder
    spankwilder Posts: 169
    When is the best time to go for a fit? On average you're apparently slightly shorter towards the end of the day, and maybe a bit more flexible?
  • ic.
    ic. Posts: 769
    t4tomo wrote:
    The limitations of all bike fits is that it's not an exact science and really you need to try stuff out and tinker, which isn't possible in a 2 3 4 hour fitting. So what you get is a best guess. Ideally you want the fitter to be around for a week as you tinker and try different things on a ride.

    Based on my experience, I totally disagree. As said above, a competent bike fitter and accurate feedback from the rider will not result in guess work.

    Go ask Adrian Timmis how much he guesses. Didn't seem to be guessing when he did my fit and I've not changed my position a single mm since I left his shop.
    2020 Reilly Spectre - raw titanium
    2020 Merida Reacto Disc Ltd - black on black
    2015 CAAD8 105 - very green - stripped to turbo bike
    2018 Planet X Exocet 2 - grey

    The departed:

    2017 Cervelo R3 DI2 - sold
    Boardman CX Team - sold
    Cannondale Synapse - broken
    Cube Streamer - stolen
    Boardman Road Comp - stolen
  • MikeWW
    MikeWW Posts: 723
    Similar experience as above with Adrian Timmis
    No up selling involved
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 51,347
    The fit will be based on what you want to do on a bike, not what you can position you can achieve.

    Everyone would be comfortable in a sit-up-and-beg position but this may not be very effective. If you're touring, it's all about comfort for long periods and on the other end of the spectrum, if you're racing you want to reduce the frontal area whilst delivering as much power as possible and being comfortable.

    A good fit will consider your flexibility and what sort of cycling you want to do.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • Miles253
    Miles253 Posts: 535
    Thanks for all the good advice guys, I'm based in Kent, so London is an easy bet, but if so many people recommend Adrian Timmis, then perhaps ill have to make a day trip of it.

    In regards to self fitting, I've gone as far as I am able and still cannot achieve total comfort, so I've decided it's time for a professional fit.

    Please continue to post recommendations
    Canyon Roadlite AL-Shamal Wheels-Centaur/Veloce Group
    Canyon Ult CF SL- Spin Koppenberg-Ultegra group
  • rafletcher
    rafletcher Posts: 1,235
    Grill wrote:
    Possibly although it's more likely with the Retul fit. I'd suggest foregoing both and going to a place with a proper fitter as opposed to one that just advertises a fit system.

    So would a competitive cyclist who is also a registered sports physio do? Cos that's what the Retul fitter I will be using is. Like anything, some are good, some less so. That applied equally to "proper" fitters. They have their preferences and prejudices too.

    I went for an initial "bike sizing" and spent an hour chatting with him, during which he made several unsolicited observations regarding my flexibility etc. The result was a suggested saddle height considerably lower than I'd been using. I was sceptical but tried it. It worked, so I'm happy to use him for a detailed Retul bike and shoe/cleat session.
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    rafletcher wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    Possibly although it's more likely with the Retul fit. I'd suggest foregoing both and going to a place with a proper fitter as opposed to one that just advertises a fit system.

    So would a competitive cyclist who is also a registered sports physio do? Cos that's what the Retul fitter I will be using is. Like anything, some are good, some less so. That applied equally to "proper" fitters. They have their preferences and prejudices too.

    I went for an initial "bike sizing" and spent an hour chatting with him, during which he made several unsolicited observations regarding my flexibility etc. The result was a suggested saddle height considerably lower than I'd been using. I was sceptical but tried it. It worked, so I'm happy to use him for a detailed Retul bike and shoe/cleat session.

    Maybe, but I can't say for certain. My Retul fit was with someone with the same credentials and it was dire. As others have said, you can't get a proper fit in a 2 hour session. You really need a week+ of trying the recommendations and tweaking them accordingly.

    I will say to be very wary if they suggest big changes from your current position as that's when you start to get real problems.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • de_sisti
    de_sisti Posts: 1,283
    I went to Adrian Timmis in 2011 and he did a good job too. He did say that I may want to tweak things a couple of mm if necessary.
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    I had a great Retul fit from an ex Sky physio in Suffolk.