800GBP frame set advice

alastair_on_wheels

Hi folks,

My old allez elite frame has kicked the bucket leaving behind it a nice ultegra sl group set I'd like to furnish a new frame with. I've got a budget of about 800 for a new frame, and this would be for a pure racing bike for RRs and probably for the odd TT as well.

I've been looking at the PX N2A and the cheaper RT-57 as options and also the Dolan Tuono SL as these look like good value for the price. I've read good things online about the Cannondale CAAD 10, but I've no sense of whether this ALU frame is better or worse than the carbon offerings at the price.

Does anyone have any opinions about these frames and how they compare? Are there other frames that I should consider? Or is it much of a muchness at this price and should focus on other components (e.g. the wheels I have were the stock originals on the allez elite frame and probably not the best).

cheers!

Miles253

Canyon al SLX is, according to bike radar, and others, a very excellent frame within that price bracket. Cannondale, however are well known at being one of the kings of alluminium. You could even stay with spesh and go for their e5 smart weld Allez.

pitchshifter

Or the Kinesis Racelight Aithein if you fancy something with a decent colour scheme.

http://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/kinesi ... wgodiS8AwA

bernithebiker

Buy 2nd hand, you'll get something really quite exotic for that much.

mfin

bernithebiker wrote:

Buy 2nd hand, you'll get something really quite exotic for that much.

+1 for sure. You can get an entirely average frame for that money or something pretty top end if you go used, and there are people out there who really look after stuff too.

Monty Dog

For £800 you can buy a decent frame direct from China plus a pair of carbon wheels - try HungFu, Flyxi, Carbonzone etc.

alastair_on_wheels

Thanks for those suggestions, I like the look of the Canyon frame, that looks definitely worth considering thanks! The Kinesis also looks good but they are out of stock in all sizes but 50cm :-(

I've been keeping half an eye on ebay and this forum seems good for sales, although looks like you have to be quick.

And I certainly wouldn't touch those unbranded imports with a barge-pole.

arran77

How about a Scott Foil from Westbrook Cycles?

http://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/scott-foil-15-di2-aero-road-frameset-2012-p197476

alastair_on_wheels

The Scott looks awesome, but the ultegra kit I've got is all mechanical. Is there anyway to fit mechanical kit to a di2 frame? If not it might be a no go.

Calpol

That price bracket seems to offer relatively low choice vs the <£600 bracket or the >£1500 range. Canyon seems the best shout unless you are prepared to be very patient in the used market. Buying used carbon bike frames is of course not without a degree of risk as you will not be warranted. Discounted new framesets don't seem to come up at this time of year except in lower demand sizes (XS or XXL).

Some of the open mold frames now coming out of China really offer superb value and also the opportunity to create your own paint design. There are good threads on Weightweenies.com, roadbikereview,com and Velobuild.com. I bought a lower end one in October and its been great. There seem to be a lot of people now picking up sub 1kg frames from the likes of Dengfu, Flixyi and Hongfu.

If you like your allez then perhaps keep an eye out for a Tarmac Sl3 or SL4 second hand

Monty Dog

alastair_on_wheels wrote:

And I certainly wouldn't touch those unbranded imports with a barge-pole.

If you're going to make uninformed assumptions that that, what's the point on coming on here asking for advice :roll: Don't let us get in the way of you paying a premium for some paint and stickers because that in effect is all you're getting.

sloppyschleckonds

Monty Dog wrote:

alastair_on_wheels wrote:

And I certainly wouldn't touch those unbranded imports with a barge-pole.

If you're going to make uninformed assumptions that that, what's the point on coming on here asking for advice :roll: Don't let us get in the way of you paying a premium for some paint and stickers because that in effect is all you're getting.

Go on, show him your unbranded Ti frames…..

arran77

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

alastair_on_wheels wrote:

And I certainly wouldn't touch those unbranded imports with a barge-pole.

If you're going to make uninformed assumptions that that, what's the point on coming on here asking for advice :roll: Don't let us get in the way of you paying a premium for some paint and stickers because that in effect is all you're getting.

Go on, show him your unbranded Ti frames…..

Some bloke on a forum said they rot worse than carbon frames so I'd stay well clear, especially a Chinese knock-off

ugo.santalucia

Get a Planet X... I like their no nonsense approach... if your frame has a problem you'll get a new one straightaway.
I have a Genesis and the fork steerer cracked. It turns out that Madison, the biggest UK distributor of cycling gear doesn't have a replacement fork, not only that, but they don't have any fork that will fit, I was happy even with a red one, or blue, so long as it fits. So, once my warranty claim is approved, I will get a voucher. In the meantime I bought a Planet X fork to replace mine (works a treat, thank you). So far I am 150 quid out of pocket and I will probably have to buy stuff I didn't plan to with the voucher. Good thing I build wheels, I can always throw in a set of Shimano hubs, so someone else will pay I will go even (hopefully).
Next time I'll just buy direct from Planet X

alastair_on_wheels

Monty Dog wrote:

alastair_on_wheels wrote:

And I certainly wouldn't touch those unbranded imports with a barge-pole.

If you're going to make uninformed assumptions that that, what's the point on coming on here asking for advice :roll: Don't let us get in the way of you paying a premium for some paint and stickers because that in effect is all you're getting.

Sorry monty dog, but the fact remains that most of what we know about those unbranded frames comes second hand from folks on internet forums like these, which just isn't good enough for me when I'm forking out hundreds of pounds. I value my safety, and like to have a warranty and someone in a sales department to phone for when things go wrong, and I'm happy to pay the extra 200 to get that (or 'paint and stickers' as you put it'). That's no disrespect to the bikes themselves or your opinion, I'm just risk averse with my hard-earned. 8)

buckmulligan

alastair_on_wheels wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

alastair_on_wheels wrote:

And I certainly wouldn't touch those unbranded imports with a barge-pole.

If you're going to make uninformed assumptions that that, what's the point on coming on here asking for advice :roll: Don't let us get in the way of you paying a premium for some paint and stickers because that in effect is all you're getting.

Sorry monty dog, but the fact remains that most of what we know about those unbranded frames comes second hand from folks on internet forums like these, which just isn't good enough for me when I'm forking out hundreds of pounds. I value my safety, and like to have a warranty and someone in a sales department to phone for when things go wrong, and I'm happy to pay the extra 200 to get that (or 'paint and stickers' as you put it'). That's no disrespect to the bikes themselves or your opinion, I'm just risk averse with my hard-earned. 8)

Yeah, that's pretty harsh Monty. There may be some really good, cheap carbon frames coming from the far-east, but I don't know many people who would risk their neck, let alone the £500 (or whatever) on an unbranded frame that could have been made by some 8 year old kid with no subsequent quality control.

arran77

BuckMulligan wrote:

alastair_on_wheels wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

alastair_on_wheels wrote:

And I certainly wouldn't touch those unbranded imports with a barge-pole.

If you're going to make uninformed assumptions that that, what's the point on coming on here asking for advice :roll: Don't let us get in the way of you paying a premium for some paint and stickers because that in effect is all you're getting.

Sorry monty dog, but the fact remains that most of what we know about those unbranded frames comes second hand from folks on internet forums like these, which just isn't good enough for me when I'm forking out hundreds of pounds. I value my safety, and like to have a warranty and someone in a sales department to phone for when things go wrong, and I'm happy to pay the extra 200 to get that (or 'paint and stickers' as you put it'). That's no disrespect to the bikes themselves or your opinion, I'm just risk averse with my hard-earned. 8)

Yeah, that's pretty harsh Monty. There may be some really good, cheap carbon frames coming from the far-east, but I don't know many people who would risk their neck, let alone the £500 (or whatever) on an unbranded frame that could have been made by some 8 year old kid with no subsequent quality control.

I think you'll find that the places that make these unbranded frames are the very same places that manufacture for more well known brands

angry_bird

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Get a Planet X... I like their no nonsense approach... if your frame has a problem you'll get a new one straightaway.

Really? I bought a mountain bike frame from PX, it was built way outside the specification and tolerances, they knew there was a problem with the batch when they sold it, unfortunately I didn't otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. They ******* me around for months about it before coming up with a solution. Just saying, they're not perfect and the customer service you'll get seems to vary massively, on the whole, mine was shocking.

charlie_potatoes

Miles253 wrote:

Canyon al SLX is, according to bike radar, and others, a very excellent frame within that price bracket.

+1 for the Canyon. Loving mine.

A race licence gets you a discount on this frame as well.
Brings it down to £543 from memory

ugo.santalucia

Angry Bird wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Get a Planet X... I like their no nonsense approach... if your frame has a problem you'll get a new one straightaway.

Really? I bought a mountain bike frame from PX, it was built way outside the specification and tolerances, they knew there was a problem with the batch when they sold it, unfortunately I didn't otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. They ******* me around for months about it before coming up with a solution. Just saying, they're not perfect and the customer service you'll get seems to vary massively, on the whole, mine was shocking.

That leaves me with an artisan made bike as the only option... or I can build my own frame, how hard can it be?

arran77

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Angry Bird wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Get a Planet X... I like their no nonsense approach... if your frame has a problem you'll get a new one straightaway.

Really? I bought a mountain bike frame from PX, it was built way outside the specification and tolerances, they knew there was a problem with the batch when they sold it, unfortunately I didn't otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. They ******* me around for months about it before coming up with a solution. Just saying, they're not perfect and the customer service you'll get seems to vary massively, on the whole, mine was shocking.

That leaves me with an artisan made bike as the only option... or I can build my own frame, how hard can it be?

Probably no harder than making wheels :P

buckmulligan

arran77 wrote:

I think you'll find that the places that make these unbranded frames are the very same places that manufacture for more well known brands

Yes yes yes, this has been discussed ad nauseum as well. It may well be the same factory and even the same moulds, but it's different carbon layup and most likely different resin, so it's not really the same frame is it? At the end of the day I'd trust a frame that has a reputable manufacturer's name and warranty on it more than an unbranded chinese one.

Anyway, I'm surprised they're getting so much praise on here given the default response to anyone who buys anything online is "you should've gone to your LBS".

Miles253

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Miles253 wrote:

Canyon al SLX is, according to bike radar, and others, a very excellent frame within that price bracket.

+1 for the Canyon. Loving mine.

A race licence gets you a discount on this frame as well.
Brings it down to £543 from memory

That is great value, OP if you're a bigger size you often get fantastic discounts in Canyons Outlet. I also think a Planet X or Ribble could be a good choice. Most people I speak to, wouldn't recommend buying used carbon, who knows where it's been or what it's gone through, unless you have sufficient experience at spotting faults which I certainly don't, it's as much of a risk as a Chinese frame

btiratsoo

Condor Acciaio might be worth a look. Great service from a great company.

MisterMuncher

Last year's CAAD10 frameset price (£550) made it a no brainer. This year's £800 tag is hard to swallow, even as a massive fan.

alastair_on_wheels

Again thanks for the suggestions, I'm tempted by the Canyon and the Condor Accaiaio is really pretty, but maybe slightly heavy for my purposes. I'm chewing it over still, but maybe now spilt between the Canyon and a PX frame.

One thing that I'm now confused about is BB compatibility. My groupset that I was going to use is an older (circa 2008) ultegra Sl. I've noticed that many of the newer frames, especially PX ones are BB30 press fit ones. Is there any way to make hollow-tech shimano crank set play nice with bb30? I'm confused because the internet seems awash with shimano 'adaptors' and yet this doesn't seem to stop new bikes coming with new ultegra stuff.

Would the easiest solution be to pick up a newer crankset if the frame is BB30?

ugo.santalucia

alastair_on_wheels wrote:

Again thanks for the suggestions, I'm tempted by the Canyon and the Condor Accaiaio is really pretty, but maybe slightly heavy for my purposes. I'm chewing it over still, but maybe now spilt between the Canyon and a PX frame.

One thing that I'm now confused about is BB compatibility. My groupset that I was going to use is an older (circa 2008) ultegra Sl. I've noticed that many of the newer frames, especially PX ones are BB30 press fit ones. Is there any way to make hollow-tech shimano crank set play nice with bb30? I'm confused because the internet seems awash with shimano 'adaptors' and yet this doesn't seem to stop new bikes coming with new ultegra stuff.

Would the easiest solution be to pick up a newer crankset if the frame is BB30?

If you can avoid BB 30 and stick to standard threaded BB, that would make your life a lot more bearable...

arran77

:roll:

Not the old BB30 shite storm

sloppyschleckonds

arran77 wrote:

:roll:

Not the old BB30 shite storm

Red flagged and reported for flaming