just choked on my coffee

rickbst170

Can't believe it. My stepson (14) just went onto an LBS to ask to borrow a cassette tool. He has the wheel and new cassette in hand. They said sure, that's ok. £7!

7 quid to borrow a tool to nip up a lockring by half a turn?!

If he was asking for their time/labour etc then fine, but to borrow it in store for 10 seconds, with 'replace if you break caveat', is unbelievable.

Won't be making that place my LBS of choice!

Grrrr

Colinthecop

I've read this twice now and still cant see the name of the LBS.

:roll:

rickbst170

My stepdad used to run a bike shop. It's hard. Really hard actually. I'm not going to name and shame the business above as I appreciate how hard it is to stay open, but certainly found my families first experience of their business poor. Others might have better experiences, they'll have to find out for themselves (not a chain of shops, just a little local business so not going to slander them all over the web for one incident).

Just having a rant. We used to lend out tools to the local kids whenever they needed them. And they came back for tubes, tyres, pads, grips etc. How times have changed!

Colinthecop

It's not really slander if you're telling the truth...

I mean, i've left a bad trip advisor review for a restaurant after one visit. Maybe the chef had a bad night, maybe he was off and someone else stood in, I don't know. But I do know the food was crap and so was the service so I thought i'd let others know. I'd be silly leaving a bad restaurant review and not naming the restaurant.

raldat

Sorry but an LBS is not a tool library. If you want them to do it, pay them. If you want to to it yourself, buy the tool. They are a business.

Of course I do not know the history. I have had shops let me do a lot, for example one used to let me use the workshop almost at will, but I bought a lot, and I mean a lot there and that was a special privilege, not a right to be whinged about if not provided.

shindig

Would you lend a tool or anything else to somebody you didn't know and had no history with ? ….. Thought not.

In the past i've lent tools to mates and never gotten them back. Now I don't lend tools. They are welcome to use them in my workshop but thats about it.

Clank

I can fully understand not just lending tools to folk - especially considering the current social climate and buying habits.

I suggest:
a) a strongly worded letter to the Daily Mail to express your needless outrage (hint: blame lesbian immigrants and they might even publish it), and
b) blaming wiggle

I'd also suggest being less of a tightarse and buying a lockring tool so the lad can do the job at home.

rickbst170

Ok. Maybe that's the way it is now. Just shocked me, that's all. When we owned a shop we helped everyone we could and scored well on repeat business. We wouldn't let people take tools home, but borrowing a spanner on the shop floor was no big deal. Times must have changed. £7 to tighten a nut seems a little 'off' to me, but guess it's the norm based on comments above. Toolkit arrives Wednesday.

Chunkers1980

Times have changed. I buy from the internet. LBS' rely quite a lot these days one fixing stuff revenue.

ste_t

Did he show you a receipt?

He's just scammed you for £7 and a shiny new toolkit.

rickbst170

Lol, he only had a few quid so came home with broken wheel still. We're building a bike from scratch so tool arrive next week in time for the weekend, but I suggested as his cassette broke earlier he pops into town to get them to nip up his new one. I'd understand a quid or two. But 7 is more than a new tool itself.

gt-arrowhead

I understand what people are saying, about it being a business and stuff, but this is exactly the part that made me think that it is ridiculous to ask for that amount of money:

rickbst170 wrote:

I'd understand a quid or two. But 7 is more than a new tool itself.

bg13

I regularly give Gts mum a tool, i sometimes wash it before she gets it!

Chunkers1980

I don't bother washing it before, it always comes out dirtier than when it went in.

rickbst170

Is that 7 quid to twist your nuts too?

97th choice

rickbst170 wrote:

Can't believe it. My stepson (14) just went onto an LBS to ask to borrow a cassette tool. He has the wheel and new cassette in hand. They said sure, that's ok. £7!

7 quid to borrow a tool to nip up a lockring by half a turn?!

If he was asking for their time/labour etc then fine, but to borrow it in store for 10 seconds, with 'replace if you break caveat', is unbelievable.

Won't be making that place my LBS of choice!

Grrrr

Do they know him, was he a regular customer who had spent money there before or did he just walk in to the shop for the first time and try to blag something for nowt.

If you won't be making it your LBS of choice. Can we assume you haven't used them previously either?

cooldad

Presumably bought the wheel and cassette somewhere else (cheaper) and still wants freebies.
Just the sort of customer they want, I'm sure.

rickbst170

We used to own a bike shop, so haven't used any others since I stopped riding. No, he hasn't spent money in there before. It's an old wheel which the cassette broke on. Had a spare so old cassette too.

Running a bike shop is hard. Repeat business is important, as are in house repairs. New business allows growth. Offer good, fairly priced service, win new customers to add to the pool for repeat business and increase reoccurring revenue. If the first impression for a new customer is that the costs are disproportionate (tool probably cost 4 quid from Madison or fisher catalogue, yet using it in house has a rental fee of twice that) then potential new business disappears, as do growth prospects. I'd consider buying inners, outers, tubes, tyres, helmets, glasses, gloves, shoes, cleats, chain etc from an LBS as the difference between internet and shop prices are less significant on low value items and I'm all for supporting lbs. But as the costs of this one are disproportionate, I won't use them for my LBS.

If they'd helped out, they could have hundred off us over the next couple years. Instead, for the sake of 7 quid at 100% gross margin, they'll lose that 200 at 60%. Won't affect my bank account bottom line, but will now affect theirs.

Good service at fair prices wins repeat orders. Basic business.

cooldad

Is it reasonable to assume that every time someone comes in with some random old bits of bike wanting freebies, that they will spend hundreds?
The fact that you'd 'consider' buying stuff says it all. Considering that you are waiting for the tool(s) to be delivered - low value item bought online anyway?
Awesome LBS support there.
I blame Wiggle.

rickbst170

Even if you disregard any prospects of future business, because the cost was high, they didn't get anything (he didn't have enough). If they'd have said 3 quid, they have 3 quid with no cost or risk based on 'you break you buy' caveat. If 50 kids walk in and ask to borrow a tool on the shop floor for 3 quid, they get 150 with no cost (maybe replace the 4 quid tool as it wears). To make that, they'd have to sell a whole 300 quid bike.

If you run your business on low volume, high valve order intake, it's high risk. Lose a few orders a month and it hurts the profit massively. If you loose a few 3 quid orders, you still have plenty in the pot. Low value high volume high margin work butters the bread. Ad hoc large orders make the big money after you've covered overheads from low value high volume work.

pesky_jones

I guess it could just be how the mechanic felt on that particular day at that particular moment.

cooldad

rickbst170 wrote:

Even if you disregard any prospects of future business, because the cost was high, they didn't get anything (he didn't have enough). If they'd have said 3 quid, they have 3 quid with no cost or risk based on 'you break you buy' caveat. If 50 kids walk in and ask to borrow a tool on the shop floor for 3 quid, they get 150 with no cost (maybe replace the 4 quid tool as it wears). To make that, they'd have to sell a whole 300 quid bike.

If you run your business on low volume, high valve order intake, it's high risk. Lose a few orders a month and it hurts the profit massively. If you loose a few 3 quid orders, you still have plenty in the pot. Low value high volume high margin work butters the bread. Ad hoc large orders make the big money after you've covered overheads from low value high volume work.

And have hoards of kids faffing with their bikes on the sales floor. Yeah right.

rickbst170

People come into a busy shop. Once in, they're more inclined to buy stuff. And the kids, and kids' mates, and kids' mates' dads buy stuff. Worked in our shop anyway.

In my opinion, £7 to use a tool for 1 min is overpriced. Guess everyone else feel that's fine. Fair enough.

welshkev

rickbst170 wrote:

People come into a busy shop. Once in, they're more inclined to buy stuff. And the kids, and kids' mates, and kids' mates' dads buy stuff. Worked in our shop anyway.

In my opinion, £7 to use a tool for 1 min is overpriced. Guess everyone else feel that's fine. Fair enough.

it's like going to a car garage and asking to use their tools though isn't it? would you do that too?

my LBS are really good with sorting easy stuff or letting me use a tool of theirs quickly but that's cos I go there all the time and buy all my spares etc there. have probably spent hundreds of quid in there over the last year so they don't mind. I doubt they'd do the same for a kid off the street they don't know from adam.

dhobiwallah

(Ex) bike shop owner doesn't have a cassette tool at home :?:

Yes £7 to borrow a tool is ridiculous. Going into a shop you have never been into before with your own second hand parts and expecting free access to their toolbox - not much less ridiculous in my opinion. Perhaps he would have charged the same to do it for you (ie thats what he was actually saying)? Or was the quote on that even more?

Of course this just happened to be the first visit of hundreds leading to multiple purchases in the future. Or perhaps he might never have seen you again until you wanted your parts from wiggle put together?

It's funny that whenever anyone complains on their first visit anywhere it seems that it was likely to have been their first of many where they would have spent their life savings (despite never having darkened the doors of the premises before despite having plenty opportunity). Never seems to happen when it was likely you wouldn't have been back there very often anyway...

rickbst170

1) was me stepdad's shop, not mine. He sold the shop and all stock/assets when I moved to the states. I got back to England and bought my own house in a different county to my stepdad (who has a cassette tool but is 200 miles away). I never needed my own tools as used the ones in the shop.

Who here would pay 7 quid to borrow a tool when they're available off the shelf for 4.99. Based on that, ridiculous.

I may have spent money in there, Maybe not. Irrelevant. Point is, 7 quid is ridiculous.

Chunkers1980

Please give up rick.

welshkev

rickbst170 wrote:

.

I may have spent money in there, Maybe not. Irrelevant. Point is, 7 quid is ridiculous.

nope, expecting a business to give you something for nothing is ridiculous

rickbst170

Ok. Fair enough. If 30 people all disagree I'm not to stubborn to admit I'm wrong. I was surprised, but maybe I'm short sighted.

Chunkers1980

I'd say you're actually being long sighted.

97th choice

I've seen someone bring a BSO into a bike shop, ask about the cost to get it repaired and when given a realistic figure start swearing and then actually leave the bike in the shop saying, ' you cen stick it in the ****ing dump for me then'

I think maybe a lot of shops are wary of doing something for nothing when they dont know the person in question. There are a LOT of timewasters out there.