Cav not doing the Giro...
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Correct in that it needs to be referenced. Was going to put that in but didnt. That isn't the point though.
My point is that providing a handful of examples of when he won sans leadout is proof of nothing. There would be several misses for every win. In addition, just because he doesnt sprint immediately coming off a leadout wouldnt categorise a race win without a leadout imo (eg/. Worlds - you mention that as an example but his team placed him almost all the way to the finish - it was a win with a leadout imo even if not a pure leadout).Contador is the Greatest0 -
Weird argument.
Nobody wins everything every time. They each have misses. Even Martin, even Froome, even Cancellara.0 -
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I agree Cav seems to be a bit of a win or nothing sprinter but how many sprinters actually win that many of the sprints they contest?Essex Rouleur wrote:but for every video you show me of him doing it, i can show you ten more where he's simply given up because things went 'slightly against him'.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
Yet his two biggest wins - the Worlds and Milan-San Remo - were done with no lead out. Also have a look at Stage 5 of the 2011 Tour or Stage 2 in 2012 for examples of what he can do on his own.Essex Rouleur wrote:Pretty much most of his best wins be it at HTC, SKY, Omega, are nearly always shown with the perfect lead out train. But if you watch Sagan or Kittel, they can break away from their trains if they arent doing that great and take the race on by themselves. You rarely see Cav doing that, not from 30km out. Cav is either 'ON' or "OFF', there is no in between, but with the others you always feel they have that bit in the middle.
What stage was it in the 2012 TdF when he overtook Roche with 100 to go having sprinted from miles back? The overhead footage was amazing.0 -
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frenchfighter wrote:If you win 100 times with a lead out train and 5 times without a lead out train you cant argue that you are A ok without a leadout train.
Just FYI.
But how many times does he get the chance to go it alone, he is a SPRINTER, the definition of which is the quick burst at the end of the race. He doesn't go in breakaways, he doesn't attack on climbs, he sits on a chain and sprints at the end. That is how sprinters win races. Just like climbers generally attack out of small groups on climbs to win races.
At the end of the day the sprint trains are part of cycling, all sprinters use them, so really you can't take anything away from the sprinters.
Also any win where he ditches his train and jumps on someone else's wheel doesn't get chalked up to a sprint train win, it generally means his train has failed to put him where he want's to be so he has to follow someone else's
So many of you are so funny, you praise Kittel, but forget during the tour we all talked about how Giant (or what ever they were called) bossed the sprint stages with their TRAIN.0 -
Joelsim wrote:
First Sky rider over the line by Cav , is the yellow jersey wearer.0 -
It was EBH in white, after a cracking lead out to get Cav up to within striking distance of the front two.0
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When has Kittel won without a train? I'm not saying he hasn't, but I can't remember any wheel hopping wins of his. He had a monster of a train in last year's Tour. Literally they were all like twice the size of everyone else.Joelsim wrote:
I think that is my all time favourite Cav win. It was awesome.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Joelsim wrote:
That's the one! I love the way everyone shakes their heads when he passes them. Brilliant!
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Yeah, EBH and Wiggo did a good job getting the bunch within striking distance, then Cav just exploded. One of my favourite finishes that.0
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Above The Cows wrote:I think that is my all time favourite Cav win. It was awesome.
It was an amazing win. My favourite win is the Champs-Élysées from the 2010 TdF with Renshaw in the background. He was a kilometre ahead!0 -
TMR wrote:Above The Cows wrote:I think that is my all time favourite Cav win. It was awesome.
It was an amazing win. My favourite win is the Champs-Élysées from the 2010 TdF with Renshaw in the background. He was a kilometre ahead!
Aye that was also a good one. Also his one without Renshaw in 2011 when he came streaming past Hushovd and whoever else on the other side of the road.Correlation is not causation.0 -
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That one was superb. He speed was immense that day.Above The Cows wrote:TMR wrote:Above The Cows wrote:I think that is my all time favourite Cav win. It was awesome.
It was an amazing win. My favourite win is the Champs-Élysées from the 2010 TdF with Renshaw in the background. He was a kilometre ahead!
Aye that was also a good one. Also his one without Renshaw in 2011 when he came streaming past Hushovd and whoever else on the other side of the road.
My favourite still though is his 2012 win in Paris. Not the best from a pure racing perspective, but the pleasure of seeing a British rider in the yellow jersey at the head of the train that led to another British rider in the rainbow jersey winning on the Champs-Élysées will likely not be bettered in my cycling-watching lifetime!You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
^^That uphill one in Brittany was on the day his dog died. God how do I remember this useless crap?Correlation is not causation.0
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ContrelaMontre wrote:2013, Stage 13 - he needed a handsling not a lead out!
Surely this decision is motivated by his experience last year where arguably he would've missed out on yellow even if there hadn't been a crash because he'd got sick on the back of his Giro exertions. I think getting to wear the yellow jumper just once must be a major aim.
Given the weight attached to Olympic medals by the state broadcaster, Cav badly needs something tangible for British media to maintain equal stature with Wiggo/Hoy/Pendleton et al and their baubles. A tour of france jumper on home soil and a win in London are the closest he'll get this side of Rio dreams....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
Above The Cows wrote:^^That uphill one in Brittany was on the day his dog died. God how do I remember this useless crap?
Amber!
*weeps*0 -
Essex Rouleur wrote:hes too lazy to go for intermediate sprint points.
My theory on this is that intermediate sprints tend to suit the 'faster' 'more powerful' sprinters who are best in a straight line dash to the line.
9 times out of 10 Cav will come 3rd in an intermediate sprint with Kittel and Greipel
Cavendish thrives on the chaos of a bunch sprint,those odds even out when 200 riders are charging for the line.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Above The Cows wrote:^^That uphill one in Brittany was on the day his dog died. God how do I remember this useless crap?
Amber!
*weeps*
OK you win the prize for useless knowledge as I couldn't remember her name.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Doesn't matter how many sprints Cav wins or how fast or how 'explosive' he is, Green Jerseys have to be more in his sights. Those who contest the intermediates have to be on the ball day in and day out on the stages with them, which may leave them silghtly jaded for the finish.
I remember Hushovd going off the front on a hilly stage in the rain (against the grain of sprinter teritory) and I firmly believe that the peloton let him go that day because that was the year Cav was disciplined and moaning a lot. Hushovd picked up many an intermediate point that day and despite Cav being quicker, Hushovd won the Green Jersey.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Cavendish strikes me as the sort of rider who wants to win lots of things once rather than one thing many times.
With that in mind, I think his primary remaining targets are:
Gent-Wevelgem
Olympic Gold medal
Tour de France yellow jersey
Merckx's Tour stage recordTwitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:Cavendish strikes me as the sort of rider who wants to win lots of things once rather than one thing many times.
With that in mind, I think his primary remaining targets are:
Gent-Wevelgem
Olympic Gold medal
Tour de France yellow jersey
Merckx's Tour stage record
With the Giro in Belfast and the Tour in Yorkshire I thought he may have had a crack at the leaders jerseys in all 3 GTs in one year. Has that been done?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Merckx's stage win record has mountain top finishes and TT wins in it, anything Cav does, is not comparable.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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Sure. And it was done in the 70s when there were only half a dozen countries in the Tour - a far smaller talent pool. It's just a record.pinarello001 wrote:Merckx's stage win record has mountain top finishes and TT wins in it, anything Cav does, is not comparable.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Well he's not doing the Giro.TailWindHome wrote:With the Giro in Belfast and the Tour in Yorkshire I thought he may have had a crack at the leaders jerseys in all 3 GTs in one year. Has that been done?
But I doubt that's been done. Few riders have done three GTs in a year and I think there are only five current riders who worn all three leader's jerseys (Contador, Millar, Wiggins, Evans & someone else - I'm sure it's five).
Winning a stage in all three GTs in a single year is another possible target - 2011 was his chance.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
Well he's not doing the Giro.TailWindHome wrote:With the Giro in Belfast and the Tour in Yorkshire I thought he may have had a crack at the leaders jerseys in all 3 GTs in one year. Has that been done?
That'll make it tough now, but he's proved the doubters wrong before
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
RichN95 wrote:Cavendish strikes me as the sort of rider who wants to win lots of things once rather than one thing many times.
With that in mind, I think his primary remaining targets are:
Gent-Wevelgem
Olympic Gold medal
Tour de France yellow jersey
Merckx's Tour stage record
Isnt that what i was saying in a roundabout way?
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