sapim race or laser spokes?

ianbar

i thought i had decided on some hope mono rs wheels, but just looking at what i can put together using H plus son rims. i am a little stuck on the spokes. sapim looks the way to go but laser or race are the best bet?

holiver

Doing some research via the search facility will bring up a lot of information. Your weight is the key factor I think.

chrisvanderkaap

Laser in the front.
and the Race in the rear.

Saving weight were you can get away with it. Since the front wheel only has to resist impact (and little lateral) stresses.
The race spokes will retain an easy build (with no wind up) and excellent power transfer in the rear.

it's as easy as that.

cycleclinic

Well the H plus son rim is stiff so if you are lightish 80 kg or less and has a 28 or 32 spoke rear wheel lasers can work out well. That weight limit is not a limit it is a rough guide at best. I can assure you that there will be good power transfer with both spokes what you need to avoid though is flex that can unload the NDS spokes. So if you the kind of rider that rocks the bike alot and is heavy then race spokes are the ticket. If you are like me then you will get away with Laser spokes on light flexy rims like the Kinlin XR-200 in 28H drilling I am 80-83kg by the way. There is no right or wrong to this just what works for you. If you are unsure then playing it safe will not add much weight.

ianbar

thank you cycle clinic! i wish i was 80kg! lol i am aiming to get there but at the moment I'm on the 100kg point. i would also say i rock the bike quite a bit so i guess race is the way to go? i will be honest my lbs recommended the hope wheels, which look like they would be fine, i am just being vein wanting the archetypes! as i think they look a lot nicer!

cycleclinic

At your weight I would not even consider Lasers. The archetype is the perfect rim for you as it is stiff and this helps alot. 32H drilling on the rear to and 24 or 28 on the front.

apreading

If you want in-between, there are the D-Light spokes too.

mhk1058

Old thread I know but their seems to be a general misundertsanding that because Race spokes are thicker (by 0.3mm) they are therefore stronger.

Sapim's own spec indicate that the Laser is stronger. The Laser spoke becomes weaker in the hands of an inexperienced builder because it is relatively hard to stop it winding up - hence Sapim's lack of recommendation to use Laser's on disc wheels. They're quite happy to recommend CX-Rays, why?, because a chimp could stop those winding up (... and they're twice the price which may also have something to do with it!!)

cycleclinic

Forget strength of spokes. A thin spoke will have a highter UTS (ultimate tensile strength) because it thinner but spoke do not fail becuase they are not strong enough, that is the misunderstanding. you have fallen into the sale s trap. Wheels need to be stiff laterally, radially (all wheels a stiff radially) and torsionaly so tension changes are small. Large cyclic tension changes lead to rapid fatigue and early spoke failure. Spokes fail at the elobow and soemtimes at the nipples. The laser and race spoke are the same 2.0mm there and drawn for the same wire stock. i.e were fatique occurs they are the same. So strength in the butted section has sod all to do with anything.

If the rim is stiff enough lasers can work well so can the CX-ray. If the rider is heavy, very high miles are wanted from the wheel or a track rider is using them for 1700W standing starts then race spokes are advisable on the rear. A stiff rim goes without saying.

With spokes there stiffness is important but what is more important is the overall stiffnes of the wheel, which is a combination of
1) rim stiffness
2) bracing angles
3) spoke count
4) spoke stiffness
Spoke strength is irrelevent, beside the relevent strength number is the young modulus which for the steel used in most spokes is 193 GPa. Young modulus is the strength number for material per unit area. This is the true strength withing the elastic limit.

I ride an MTB with disc brake wheels built with lasers. All is well there. The rims are stiff which is why it work.

mhk1058

thecycleclinic wrote:

Forget strength of spokes. A thin spoke will have a highter UTS (ultimate tensile strength) because it thinner but spoke do not fail becuase they are not strong enough, that is the misunderstanding. you have fallen into the sale s trap. Wheels need to be stiff laterally, radially (all wheels a stiff radially) and torsionaly so tension changes are small. Large cyclic tension changes lead to rapid fatigue and early spoke failure. Spokes fail at the elobow and soemtimes at the nipples. The laser and race spoke are the same 2.0mm there and drawn for the same wire stock. i.e were fatique occurs they are the same. So strength in the butted section has sod all to do with anything.

If the rim is stiff enough lasers can work well so can the CX-ray. If the rider is heavy, very high miles are wanted from the wheel or a track rider is using them for 1700W standing starts then race spokes are advisable on the rear. A stiff rim goes without saying.

With spokes there stiffness is important but what is more important is the overall stiffnes of the wheel, which is a combination of
1) rim stiffness
2) bracing angles
3) spoke count
4) spoke stiffness
Spoke strength is irrelevent, beside the relevent strength number is the young modulus which for the steel used in most spokes is 193 GPa. Young modulus is the strength number for material per unit area. This is the true strength withing the elastic limit.

I ride an MTB with disc brake wheels built with lasers. All is well there. The rims are stiff which is why it work.

That's all very well but the thread was started as "Race or Laser" spokes, the discussion was the relative merits of each, the assumption being they were for the same rim.