Trail Bike of the Year!
Comments
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lawman wrote:supersonic wrote:Manufacturers rarely seem to put much thought into spec. Well apart from thinking what might sell. It is true to say that we expect a certain level of kit for a certain price, not many would want altus gears and shimano 355 brakes on the foxy. Well I would if that's what it takes to shoehorn a pike onto it, because the simple fact is this budget stuff works bloody well and I'd take it over the sram gears.
It still annoys me that we see uprated rear mechs fitted to bikes. Is an old show room trick that will never go away. But many fall for it.
You do see some odd stuff on some bikes, stupid long stems and narrow bars are still a common complaint, cheapy tyres as well. Every manufacturer is going to have a different idea on what makes their bikes more desirable and likely to sell, some have been doing it longer than I've been on this earth and many have been around a lot longer than most of us have been mtb'ing for. If they didn't know what they were doing they wouldn't exist.
And many don't exist any more. But it is all about sales. What the average (and let's be honest, us lot in this discussion this are not average riders, we have some modicum of knowledge) punter might like. Shiny rear mech. Brand names.0 -
Quite right SSsupersonic wrote:lawman wrote:supersonic wrote:Manufacturers rarely seem to put much thought into spec. Well apart from thinking what might sell. It is true to say that we expect a certain level of kit for a certain price, not many would want altus gears and shimano 355 brakes on the foxy. Well I would if that's what it takes to shoehorn a pike onto it, because the simple fact is this budget stuff works bloody well and I'd take it over the sram gears.
It still annoys me that we see uprated rear mechs fitted to bikes. Is an old show room trick that will never go away. But many fall for it.
You do see some odd stuff on some bikes, stupid long stems and narrow bars are still a common complaint, cheapy tyres as well. Every manufacturer is going to have a different idea on what makes their bikes more desirable and likely to sell, some have been doing it longer than I've been on this earth and many have been around a lot longer than most of us have been mtb'ing for. If they didn't know what they were doing they wouldn't exist.
And many don't exist any more. But it is all about sales. What the average (and let's be honest, us lot in this discussion this are not average riders, we have some modicum of knowledge) punter might like. Shiny rear mech. Brand names.
It is often about brand. My kids (13 y.o.) want Fox forks and a branded frame. Even though I told them that Decathlon and Halfords do better bikes at their price point. But they want something to show off to heir mates.
Bike shops can also be guilty too. I went into a large (but independent) store a week or two back. Looking for recommendations for a FS - longer travel, more comfy bike than I have now (~£3k budget) He showed me a few (not important what they were). Most had poor Fox forks as in TBOTY. When I asked him about this he said 'they're forks, they go up and down'!
I dare say, but I want a bit more than that for that money0 -
The branding argument is certainly interesting, as BigAl points out younger folks are certainly seem more inclined to go with a certain brand, as they appear to be better or cooler through some kind of social construction. Perhaps the industry is aware of this, aiming for the younger brand-savvy market that are bothered whether a bike comes with XXX brand of fork, shock or drivetrain. Everyone's different and they're going to want different things, certainly the opinion of a few folks on the internet is not going to represent the whole market the manufacturers are aiming for!
I just tend to find stuff that works and stick with it tbh, I prefer Fox to RS, Shimano to Sram... you get the picture. Perhaps it's just a generational thing, that an older generation is perhaps a little more cautious when it comes to branding and certainly pricing. I'm of the opinion that if I have to pay a little more to get what I want, so be it.0 -
You see it a lot with bike looks too. Especially with the huge amount of newbie questions/500 quid bike. They'd take a far lesser spec because of a paint job.
Percentage wise markup, these budget bikes actually make more money for manufacturers. So looks come first for a lot. or bunging in as many gears as they can, as more, is better...0 -
BigAl wrote:He showed me a few (not important what they were). Most had poor Fox forks as in TBOTY. When I asked him about this he said 'they're forks, they go up and down'!
I dare say, but I want a bit more than that for that money
Me too, and with staff that disinterested (or clueless) I'd be spending my money in somebody else's shop.0 -
The problem for a lot of bike shops is that they not making big money and often (can) only pay relatively low wages in order to stay in business. They cannot always pick the staff based on interest and motivation in their service and product but take what they can get. The small businessman does not always invest in training and motivating their staff because they don't see the value.
As a smallish business owner, I recognise the benefit of having staff who understand what our company is trying to achieve and how that makes for a a more satisfying job/career. We don't pay above the market rate but most of our employees are at least one level higher than is needed to do the job required compared to our competitors. All the staff are entitled to a bonus at the end of the year based on the companies clearly defend goals at the beginning of the year and we have lower staff turnover than any of our competitors.
I always try and promote from within the organisation even if I don't have somebody with the requisite skill set, feeling that training and support will get a good motivated employee to the level of skills they need.
My biggest challenge is whether I can grow the company to provide the opportunities for the staff who want to progress their career.
I just don't often see this culture when I walk into some bike shops.
On the other hand it is great to find a motivated, interested and helpful individual or a shop that has embedded this kind of thinking into how they do business.
I understand that the online businesses have taken some of their market but they can (and some do) compete in other ways, just wish more did.0 -
Its funny how things change - I remember when Fox used to be the dogs danglies and everyone wanted a set. Now you'd more likely get laughed off the trails if you showed up with a brand new set of aftermarket Fox (Buying a bike with some on is not so much of a sin).
It seems even the lure of equipment on bikes is swaying the testers too.... for example the Canyon, which is described as 'Canyon’s Spectral is incredibly short' is given 4.5. When I tried a Strive I thought exactly the same thing - the bikes are too damn short. Its surely sufficiently fundamental that you've cocked up one of only half a dozen geometry items that actually match that you'd get less than 4.5? You cant change that measurement. You can change a pony set of forks though. I say well done to wmb for ignoring the spec for a moment and going with the ride - I think too many tests have been biased towards kit and not enough on the ride in recent years. It is a shame that the Mondraker is so expensive though.A Flock of Birds
+ some other bikes.0 -
The Modraker is expensive,
But in reality compared to most brands that aren't direct sales its really not, Specialised, Trek and so on its actually relatively ok priced. Its in comparison to canyon and other direct sellers and then the trade off is trying to get a demo to see if you actually like the bike not just the spec list.
Personally just stumped up the cash for the new dune XR will have it Sunday! and rode the Foxy and its a lovely bike!
Alot of bikes spec parts on consumer advise(As stated above Fox for its perceived premium by alot of people) and based on manufactuer deals.0 -
When I tried a Strive I thought exactly the same thing - the bikes are too damn short.
Why not try a larger model? Or was it the largest?0 -
supersonic wrote:When I tried a Strive I thought exactly the same thing - the bikes are too damn short.
Why not try a larger model? Or was it the largest?
It's a pretty common thing, but the Spectral and Strive are both pretty short mediums, step up a size and while the reach is good you might find the seat tube too long as I often do. A large Canyon would be right on the limit for me.0 -
Gotta agree with the brand snobs out there they exist every where.
My LBS is thinking of dropping Merida from there line because people just don't know the name and won't buy them.
Regardless of the spec and value and the fact they own specialized!
I do like the look of the Mondraker and it's a bike I would consider when I'm ready to buy. But I do think it's over priced for the average spec it comes with but as that amount of money would be a long term investment I would prefer a sorted frame and would be willing to upgrade along the way.0 -
lawman wrote:supersonic wrote:When I tried a Strive I thought exactly the same thing - the bikes are too damn short.
Why not try a larger model? Or was it the largest?
It's a pretty common thing, but the Spectral and Strive are both pretty short mediums, step up a size and while the reach is good you might find the seat tube too long as I often do. A large Canyon would be right on the limit for me.
How much seatpost do you have sticking out usually? I guess a dropper might make things tight, but even then.0 -
supersonic wrote:lawman wrote:supersonic wrote:When I tried a Strive I thought exactly the same thing - the bikes are too damn short.
Why not try a larger model? Or was it the largest?
It's a pretty common thing, but the Spectral and Strive are both pretty short mediums, step up a size and while the reach is good you might find the seat tube too long as I often do. A large Canyon would be right on the limit for me.
How much seatpost do you have sticking out usually? I guess a dropper might make things tight, but even then.
On the Mojo I have about 3-4" stick out and it's a 17" frame, so a 20" bike with a dropper is running a little close, doable with a 125mm reverb, but if I wanted a 150mm I'd be in trouble. I have pretty short legs though and a long body, ideally I'd have an 18.5" or so seat tube and the top tube and reach of a large, or maybe even an xl in some brands sizing.0 -
nick-gti wrote:My LBS is thinking of dropping Merida from there line because people just don't know the name and won't buy them.
Regardless of the spec and value and the fact they own specialized!
They only own 49% of Specialized.0 -
lawman wrote:On the Mojo I have about 3-4" stick out and it's a 17" frame
Do you live in a rainforest and hunt your dinner with a blowpipe?
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Kowalski675 wrote:lawman wrote:On the Mojo I have about 3-4" stick out and it's a 17" frame
Do you live in a rainforest and hunt your dinner with a blowpipe?
That's with the dropper fully dropped, so no I'm not a pigmy
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lawman wrote:Kowalski675 wrote:lawman wrote:On the Mojo I have about 3-4" stick out and it's a 17" frame
Do you live in a rainforest and hunt your dinner with a blowpipe?
That's with the dropper fully dropped, so no I'm not a pigmy
Ah, I see. Thought you meant with it fully extended. 0 -
Kowalski675 wrote:lawman wrote:Kowalski675 wrote:lawman wrote:On the Mojo I have about 3-4" stick out and it's a 17" frame
Do you live in a rainforest and hunt your dinner with a blowpipe?
That's with the dropper fully dropped, so no I'm not a pigmy
Ah, I see. Thought you meant with it fully extended.
Lord no! I'm about 6ft1, but have shortish legs and a long torso. 0 -
I'm other way - 6ft, but 35 inch legs.0
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Me too, 5 foot 10, but with 34" inside leg, must have a short torso.0
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Kowalski675 wrote:nick-gti wrote:My LBS is thinking of dropping Merida from there line because people just don't know the name and won't buy them.
Regardless of the spec and value and the fact they own specialized!
They only own 49% of Specialized.
even so there hardly small fish are they0 -
*they are *they're0
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This is the best thread on here for a long time.
My bike retails for £2500 and comes with the fox32 evo and I've been happy with it. It's only 130mm not 150mm and I'm not experienced enough to know what "flex" is.
Not had any problems with the forks...don't bother with the CTD though! Even I know its a waste of time. Just leave it open and forget about it...0 -
I would be tempted with the Foxy rather than the Foxy R if the fork is to be binned anyway as that's a more realistic price £2199
http://www.singletrackbikes.co.uk/m19b3 ... tAoddkQAUA0 -
kammybear wrote:This is the best thread on here for a long time.
My bike retails for £2500 and comes with the fox32 evo and I've been happy with it. It's only 130mm not 150mm and I'm not experienced enough to know what "flex" is.
Not had any problems with the forks...don't bother with the CTD though! Even I know its a waste of time. Just leave it open and forget about it...
I'd be very interested to know who here has actually ridden a CTD fork for a decent amount of time, people seem very quick to dismiss them. I find it strange that they refuse to believe the Mondraker was a worthy winner yet are staggeringly quick to agree with the mags on Fox products...0 -
lawman wrote:I find it strange that they refuse to believe the Mondraker was a worthy winner...
I don't think people are questioning its win, just its value. Of course, those two collide somewhere in the middle, but they are, somehow, different.All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070 -
Personally if I was spending my hard earned cash on one of the bikes from the TBOTY reviews it would be the canyon. I'm 5,11" with a 32 inseam and would say that in a large it would fit me perfectly. My blur LT (large) isn't exactly the longest bike in the world but I manage to have bags of fun on it and the large spectral is just a touch longer reach + TT. Also I run the same fork and shock on my LT as the spectral 9.0EX comes fitted with and they are sublime bits of kit (just wish the shock had some low speed compression adjustment in the mid compression setting). Also the spec is very very good throughout.
That said......
I don't buy new bikes (demo my fair share though ) I tend to buy 2nd hand frames (or bikes and strip the bits then sell them off to get the frame) and build the bikes I want to ride a few years after they get released and in a year or 2 I wouldn't even consider a 2nd had canyon but would really fancy building up a foxy with some pikes etc. Yeti SB66c 20130 -
I think it's strange that Mondraker have downgraded the specs on the Foxy range compared to the last couple of years & this years Dune. There's no RR version & you don't even get a Fox Factory shock on the XR or frame-only options.
Given that it won the test despite a poor component spec it must be a very good frame. The only minor complaint I have with my 2012 version is that I sometimes notice some flex in the rear end & I know they've made an effort to make the rear stiffer.
I might have to get a (heavily discounted) frame at the end of the year for my next project.0 -
my bike cost me approx. £2250 to build that's with a pike, monarch RC3, "decent wheels", SLX drive train/brakes with RF NW, carbon bars, decent tyres and pedals.
frame and shock comes in at £650 so obviously I've saved a bit there does make me wonder how much profit is being made and how building your own if you can find a decent frame at a decent price.0 -
All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070
