Running
Comments
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You’re right that running hills can cause injury for a novice, but Pross doesn’t see to be a novice, rather not yet at his full potential. Running hills brings advantages like increases in stamina, strength and aerobic capacity, better development of the quads (advantageous for longer distances) and a general improvement in running efficiency (a IOC study in the 90s, suggested a 3% improvement in efficiency was possible through regular hill running).DeVlaeminck wrote:OK can someone tell me the rationale for running up hills? My reasoning against it is it stresses the lower leg muscles and soft tissues which is a common source of injury for novice runners, plus as a cyclist he will already be stronger on hills than the flat.
Re quads, your theory that cycling is a good enough subsitute for running uphill isn’t entirely correct because, although both exercise the quads, when cycling it’s the middle and inner bits of the quads which are mainly used, whereas when running it’s the middle and outer bits.
In any case, nobody here has so far suggested to Pross running hills to any degree like a top runner would do, which would be too much for not only a novice – a top runner would typically run as training 6 times a 3K circuit which included 80 m of climbing each circuit, so 480 m climbing each session, and that more than once a week.0 -
If you're getting the time in on the bike then just rock up and do it! I rarely run and have still posted reasonable times.
I did Zürich marathon in 2009 in 4 hr 05 min and in 2012 the Brienzerseelauf (35 km with a very hilly start - http://www.brienzerseelauf.ch/informationen/strecke/) in just over 4 hours as well as the Bern GP (16 km) in 90 mins.
I easily got to 21 km in both the marathon and the Brienzerseelauf and the pain only really started at 33 km in the marathon and 28 km in the Brienzerseelauf.0 -
schweiz wrote:If you're getting the time in on the bike then just rock up and do it! I rarely run and have still posted reasonable times.
I did Zürich marathon in 2009 in 4 hr 05 min and in 2012 the Brienzerseelauf (35 km with a very hilly start - http://www.brienzerseelauf.ch/informationen/strecke/) in just over 4 hours as well as the Bern GP (16 km) in 90 mins.
I easily got to 21 km in both the marathon and the Brienzerseelauf and the pain only really started at 33 km in the marathon and 28 km in the Brienzerseelauf.
I run far more than I ride these days and am always pleasantly surprised how well I can ride after many months away. So I don't disagree that you can still perform reasonably well with non-specific fitness. However, there's still a sizeable gap between achieving what you're capable of and just posting a reasonable time. I rode a 25 minute 10 mile TT last August having run extensively and cycled well under 1, 000 miles. I thought this was OK under the circumstances but I was doing short 23's 12 months earlier when cycling regularly. My general fitness was higher in 2013 than 2012. All depends on what motivates the individual as to what level of performance is satisfying. And there are injury risks.0 -
That's absurd and irresponsible advice! :roll:schweiz wrote:If you're getting the time in on the bike then just rock up and do it! I rarely run and have still posted reasonable times.
I did Zürich marathon in 2009 in 4 hr 05 min and in 2012 the Brienzerseelauf (35 km with a very hilly start - http://www.brienzerseelauf.ch/informationen/strecke/) in just over 4 hours as well as the Bern GP (16 km) in 90 mins.
I easily got to 21 km in both the marathon and the Brienzerseelauf and the pain only really started at 33 km in the marathon and 28 km in the Brienzerseelauf.
No-one with a grain of common sense is going to opinion seriously. The risks of injury trying to run a half marathon or any significant distance without training are huge. I'm pretty confident most non-running cyclists would be unable to even complete a half marathon at a running pace never mind do it in a time anywhere near what they could if moderately trained.
Running and riding are very different activities. It's absurd to suggest as you are, that riding is equivalent to running training.0 -
Ai_1 wrote:
That's absurd and irresponsible advice! :roll:schweiz wrote:If you're getting the time in on the bike then just rock up and do it! I rarely run and have still posted reasonable times.
I did Zürich marathon in 2009 in 4 hr 05 min and in 2012 the Brienzerseelauf (35 km with a very hilly start - http://www.brienzerseelauf.ch/informationen/strecke/) in just over 4 hours as well as the Bern GP (16 km) in 90 mins.
I easily got to 21 km in both the marathon and the Brienzerseelauf and the pain only really started at 33 km in the marathon and 28 km in the Brienzerseelauf.
No-one with a grain of common sense is going to opinion seriously. The risks of injury trying to run a half marathon or any significant distance without training are huge. I'm pretty confident most non-running cyclists would be unable to even complete a half marathon at a running pace never mind do it in a time anywhere near what they could if moderately trained.
Running and riding are very different activities. It's absurd to suggest as you are, that riding is equivalent to running training.
Really? If you can ride a bike for several hours then running for a couple of hours is not going to put any undue load on your CV system. Equally, a cyclist who trains regularly is unlikely to have body weight that will put undue strain onto the joints. The human body has evolved over millions of years to allow us to stand up and move around. Walking /running for two hours really isn't a problem. Like any sport, you need to warm up and stretch to reduce the risk of injury but if you're generally fit you can run. If anything, it's cycling that the body has not evolved to do, it is something we force it to do.
I ran 'properly' (i.e. not to catch a bus) for the first time in 18 months or so the other week and still managed a sub 24 min 5 km. I was a bit sore because I pushed too hard in the last km (not to mention that the trainers were the ones I'd had since doing Zürich in 2009 and are probably past it!), but I can pretty much run 10-20 km at 5 1/2 minute/km on cycling fitness alone. Many years ago, I did train for the Calgary Half Marathon and got a time of 1:44 so yes, training will help your times, I'm not disputing that. If road running is what you want to train for and do, if you want to run sub 4 min/km, then go ahead but don't underestimate what the body is capable of if it is generally in good shape.0 -
I don't underestimate what the human body can do. However what it may be able to do and what it should be expected to do without the expectation of long term damage and injury are very different. Of course cycling will provide a good CV basis for running but it does not prepare your muscular skeletal system nor does evolution. You really are talking nonsense and potentially harmful nonsense if anyone were to follow your advice. It's possible to jump into long runs without preparation but success is doubtful, injury is likely and it's not going to have wny health benefit.0
