Hand Built Wheels - Recomendations?

Churchill123

So i've decided i'm going to go down the hand built route for wheels..

Want to spend in the region of £400 - Any recommendations where to go/who to use?

Any help is appreciated

styxd

Churchill123 wrote:

Any recommendations where to go/who to use?

The forum search function would be a good start.

eddiefiola

i got some H plus Archetype rims on Novatec hubs from http://thecycleclinic.eu/collections/road-rim-brake-wheelsets including shipping to Europe was under 300 quid, very happy with the wheels.

ugo.santalucia

Depends what you want... some will build you light wheels, others will build you solid wheels and others will convince you to go for carbon... or tubulars or tubeless... or CX Ray spokes... or not
In essence, where you go depends what you are looking for and to an extent where you live

tigertang0

Up for CX ray spokes, some good rims are ZTR alphas, hed belgium, mavic open pro. Get a chris king hub if you can, or find an ultegra hub.

Churchill123

during the week i ride in surrey, and weekends in Norfolk so pretty flat, after a fairly light wheel that's quick and will help me get up hills quicker

ugo.santalucia

Churchill123 wrote:

after a fairly light wheel that's quick and will help me get up hills quicker

It won't. A light wheel is quicker to pick up pace, but then it's as good as another one... on a long climb you might get a few seconds here and there, accelerations out of hairpins (if you have legs) and the half a pound weight save will grant you another handful of seconds, but where you ride and live there will be zero difference.
Extensive tests up Box Hill made me conclude there is no measurable difference for the climbs we have round here

Camcycle1974

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Churchill123 wrote:

after a fairly light wheel that's quick and will help me get up hills quicker

It won't. A light wheel is quicker to pick up pace, but then it's as good as another one... on a long climb you might get a few seconds here and there, accelerations out of hairpins (if you have legs) and the half a pound weight save will grant you another handful of seconds, but where you ride and live there will be zero difference.
Extensive tests up Box Hill made me conclude there is no measurable difference for the climbs we have round here

Ah, but for placebo and posing factor light weight wheels are the way forward (says the man who has just bought some 1300g carbon clinchers! )

ugo.santalucia

Placebo can trigger endorphins release and you can even get significantly faster for a little while, but it's not got much to do with the wheels. If we were able to get equally excited about a new stem bolt or inner tube, it would be a lot better...

PS: I have genuinely heard people saying their new QR skewers felt a lot better...

Camcycle1974

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Placebo can trigger endorphins release and you can even get significantly faster for a little while, but it's not got much to do with the wheels. If we were able to get equally excited about a new stem bolt or inner tube, it would be a lot better...

PS: I have genuinely heard people saying their new QR skewers felt a lot better...

We all need to justify our expensive purchases somehow

Lighter inner tubes I could see might have some discernible benefit. I had to order some for my deeper rims today. Choice between the standard long valve Conti ones or the light ones at £3 more each. I saved my cash as the difference is only 20g each. I think we, as recreational cyclists, have bought into the marginal gains promoted by the pro peleton which is nonsensical but part of the fun I suppose.

tom3

apologies for hi-jacking the thread and forgive my ignorance..

Is the cycle clinic a poster on here and reputable?

The only reason I ask is that I have just worked out (all on my own) that this chap is in the next village to my in laws and I can kill two birds with one stone this week.

ugo.santalucia

Camcycle1974 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Placebo can trigger endorphins release and you can even get significantly faster for a little while, but it's not got much to do with the wheels. If we were able to get equally excited about a new stem bolt or inner tube, it would be a lot better...

PS: I have genuinely heard people saying their new QR skewers felt a lot better...

We all need to justify our expensive purchases somehow

Lighter inner tubes I could see might have some discernible benefit. I had to order some for my deeper rims today. Choice between the standard long valve Conti ones or the light ones at £3 more each. I saved my cash as the difference is only 20g each. I think we, as recreational cyclists, have bought into the marginal gains promoted by the pro peloton which is nonsensical but part of the fun I suppose.

7 grams saving per pound is good value... it means for a thousand pounds you could bring down to zero the weight of your bike... you should have bought the lighter!

Camcycle1974

tom3 wrote:

apologies for hi-jacking the thread and forgive my ignorance..

Is the cycle clinic a poster on here and reputable?

The only reason I ask is that I have just worked out (all on my own) that this chap is in the next village to my in laws and I can kill two birds with one stone this week.

Yes and yes. I went down to see Malcolm especially from Cambridge for his opinion on a bike I had. A very decent chap and thoroughly reputable. I have also purchased from his Ebay shop. Price was good and delivery swift.

Camcycle1974

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Camcycle1974 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Placebo can trigger endorphins release and you can even get significantly faster for a little while, but it's not got much to do with the wheels. If we were able to get equally excited about a new stem bolt or inner tube, it would be a lot better...

PS: I have genuinely heard people saying their new QR skewers felt a lot better...

We all need to justify our expensive purchases somehow

Lighter inner tubes I could see might have some discernible benefit. I had to order some for my deeper rims today. Choice between the standard long valve Conti ones or the light ones at £3 more each. I saved my cash as the difference is only 20g each. I think we, as recreational cyclists, have bought into the marginal gains promoted by the pro peloton which is nonsensical but part of the fun I suppose.

7 grams saving per pound is good value... it means for a thousand pounds you could bring down to zero the weight of your bike... you should have bought the lighter!

indeed, more fool me for saving £6 rather than 40g!

ugo.santalucia

Camcycle1974 wrote:

Yes and yes. I went down to see Malcolm especially from Cambridge for his opinion on a bike I had. A very decent chap and thoroughly reputable. I have also purchased from his Ebay shop. Price was good and delivery swift.

Some say he's the nephew of Bjorn Borg... :shock:

Churchill123

OK so is their any point in buying upgraded wheels what so ever then?

Whats the point of buying a £2,000 set of wheels when a £200 pair are the same shape?

hypster

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Camcycle1974 wrote:

Yes and yes. I went down to see Malcolm especially from Cambridge for his opinion on a bike I had. A very decent chap and thoroughly reputable. I have also purchased from his Ebay shop. Price was good and delivery swift.

Some say he's the nephew of Bjorn Borg... :shock:

LOL! He certainly gives a good service!

hypster

Churchill123 wrote:

OK so is their any point in buying upgraded wheels what so ever then?

Whats the point of buying a £2,000 set of wheels when a £200 pair are the same shape?

You don't give any details of your weight but if you are less than 90kg you could go for H+ Son Archetypes on Novatec A171/F172 hubs (10-speed) laced 24F/28R with Sapim Laser spokes radially laced on the front and Sapim Laser NDS/Sapim Race DS rear laced 2x. They should come out around 1650g for the pair.

Alternatively you could go for a slightly lighter rim like the Kinlin XR-270 with Miche Primato hubs (11-speed) and these will come out at a similar weight.

The Cycle Clinic will be able to supply these for well inside your £400 budget.

bmxboy10

Churchill123 wrote:

OK so is their any point in buying upgraded wheels what so ever then?

Whats the point of buying a £2,000 set of wheels when a £200 pair are the same shape?

Right here we go. I have a nice CF Cinelli road bike that came with RS10s. I changed the wheels straight away for some Mavic Ksyrium Elites and at the time thought they "transformed" the bike. The wheels are very good but that placebo effect soon wore off. Had a funny five minutes recently and got a bit concerned about rider weight so thought I would go back to handbuilts as I had a set of Harry Rowland wheels on my previous Ti bike and they gave no cause foe concern in terms of my lardy backside.

Anyway, to fund the new handbuilts I needed to sell the Elites which I did last week. My cousin recently had a set of R500s for sale so I bought them off him for £30, stuck on some decent tyres I had laying around and though that would do as a stop gap. The reality is that after 4 or 5 rides the difference between the Elites and the R500s for a weekend warrior like myself is extremely marginal to say the least so much so that I keep thinking about just leaving the bike as it is. That said I know that wont happen but when I do order the new wheels it wont be for performance gains but will be to ensure the wheels on my bike are suitable for my needs rather than being sub 1500g with bladed spokes. BTW I am not moaning about the Elites I am just saying for most people it is a placebo thing IMO

ugo.santalucia

Churchill123 wrote:

OK so is their any point in buying upgraded wheels what so ever then?

Whats the point of buying a £2,000 set of wheels when a £200 pair are the same shape?

You get a marginal gain... marginal gains are expensive in sport, which is a good thing, otherwise everybody would be on top of the range stuff all the time and there would be no innovation (or top of the range or any range at all in fact).
The question is another... is a marginal gain (remember the 2 seconds per mile figure) worth 2000 pounds for you? 2 seconds per mile seem nothing, but in a 25 miles time trial, that's a minute, give or take... in an iron man... that's nearly 4 minutes. The difference between a top time triallist like Wiggins and some ordinary PRO cyclist is around 6 seconds per mile... (that's 3 minutes in a 30 miles TT) in the right context marginal gains do matter

nathancom

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Churchill123 wrote:

OK so is their any point in buying upgraded wheels what so ever then?

Whats the point of buying a £2,000 set of wheels when a £200 pair are the same shape?

You get a marginal gain... marginal gains are expensive in sport, which is a good thing, otherwise everybody would be on top of the range stuff all the time and there would be no innovation (or top of the range or any range at all in fact).
The question is another... is a marginal gain (remember the 2 seconds per mile figure) worth 2000 pounds for you? 2 seconds per mile seem nothing, but in a 25 miles time trial, that's a minute, give or take... in an iron man... that's nearly 4 minutes. The difference between a top time triallist like Wiggins and some ordinary PRO cyclist is around 6 seconds per mile... (that's 3 minutes in a 30 miles TT) in the right context marginal gains do matter

Different wheels do feel different to ride. The stiffer wheels will give that slight bit if extra zip when you accelerate and that positively changes how you feel on your bike.

Add to this the other major benefit of handbuilts, the ability to repair, and you will find that they both enhance your ride and save you money over the long term.

In terms of marginal gains, the biggest is shifting your own weight (done sensibly). It can knock chunks of time off your climbs.

Camcycle1974

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Camcycle1974 wrote:

Yes and yes. I went down to see Malcolm especially from Cambridge for his opinion on a bike I had. A very decent chap and thoroughly reputable. I have also purchased from his Ebay shop. Price was good and delivery swift.

Some say he's the nephew of Bjorn Borg... :shock:

Some say he sells wheels. All we know is he is called Malcolm!

cycleclinic

My family are Maltese not Sweedish! The Normans (Danes originally) carried the name to Malta, they like the Vikings got everywhere. They founded the Russia state as part of a trading route to Arabia/Iran/Iraq.

matt-h

I have H Plus Son Achetypes with Miche hubs and DT comp spokes and am very happy with them.
Probably not the lightest, but ride very nice
Ugo built mine

Matt

g00se

If you're in Norfolk, chat to Phil at Norwich Wheel Systems (search on facebook). He built me a nice set of Ride Pulse Sprint rims (similar sort of profile to the Archetypes) on Record hubs for a little over £400.

Churchill123

g00se wrote:

If you're in Norfolk, chat to Phil at Norwich Wheel Systems (search on facebook). He built me a nice set of Ride Pulse Sprint rims (similar sort of profile to the Archetypes) on Record hubs for a little over £400.

Great shout - thanks

Will get in touch with him

g00se

Churchill123 wrote:

g00se wrote:

If you're in Norfolk, chat to Phil at Norwich Wheel Systems (search on facebook). He built me a nice set of Ride Pulse Sprint rims (similar sort of profile to the Archetypes) on Record hubs for a little over £400.

Great shout - thanks

Will get in touch with him

Cool - he has a great reputation amongst the local club riders - say 'Steve says hi'.

pippi_langsamer-2

Whatever you decide, make sure your wheels are "Bomb-Proof".

Yes, that's "Bomb-Proof"...

hypster

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

Whatever you decide, make sure your wheels are "Bomb-Proof".

Yes, that's "Bomb-Proof"...

Personally I prefer my wheels to be crazed, half-wit Audi/BMW/Mercedes driver proof! Not many IEDs in my neck of the woods.

Churchill123

g00se wrote:

Churchill123 wrote:

g00se wrote:

If you're in Norfolk, chat to Phil at Norwich Wheel Systems (search on facebook). He built me a nice set of Ride Pulse Sprint rims (similar sort of profile to the Archetypes) on Record hubs for a little over £400.

Great shout - thanks

Will get in touch with him

Cool - he has a great reputation amongst the local club riders - say 'Steve says hi'.

I've dropped him an email so look forward to getting his thoughts/opinions

cycleclinic

Those Ryde Sprint rims are very light.

If you are going for record hubs a 32H build with Laser spoke (fine for riders under 80kg I would think given the stiffness of the wheel) and brass nipples would weigh in at 1465g. The rim also comes in a offset version for the rear so go for that. Tyres are a tight fit though according to one customer (I had no problems but I do this for a living).

Also the sprint rim is 20mm deep so not like the archetype at all. the 25mm deep rim is the pulse comp but only the offset version of the pulse comp is wide. The non offset version is 15mm internal width.

Also like all sub 400g rims (they weigh 395g average) I personally would not suggest them for rider abve 85kg even though Ryde say a weight limit of 100kg.