Pain putting me off

carbineacs

Hi all,

I'm aching a lot today, and I'm getting fed up with it! What I'm hoping for, is maybe someone can send me some details of a correct setup for my height, or some good pointers? People sometimes say, 'Set it up until it feels right' but it never feels right!

So, bike is a Carrera Virtuoso 2012 medium 51cm. This 'should' be the right size for me.
My height 5'8"

What hurts, is my shoulders, hands, and arse!

I've tried so much and I'm getting fed up with it. I've tried high handle bars, low handle bars, saddle forwards, saddle back, short stem (70mm) long stem (100) upside down stem, lowered it, raised it, changed saddle for a specialized one and re-taped the bars. I am wearing padded shorts too. Now I'm thinking I may have had the right setup once, but I never worked through the pain from other setups to make it work.

Can anyone that is my height give me a good starting point where I can start all over again please? I normally do between 20 - 50 mile rides. I would like to do more but by the time I hit 30-40 miles I'm done in, not from energy but from shoulder neck and saddle pain etc. I've done 1000 miles on this bike since last May and it's still not right.

I had a bike fitting and they said it was set up right. But I took it out and it still hurt! Do I want to go as upright as possible? Then use the drops on headwind / fast sections? Long or short stem? I see other riders hunched right over and going like mad. Is it possible to average 18mph over 50 miles hunched over? I'm thinking maybe I'm trying to mix two disciplines into one (racing and touring) and not liking the results? I could probably do 15 miles down low hunched over at 17 mph average speed but any more miles than that and I think I would be stiff for a week.

I do a lot of mountain biking, and never have this problem, even though my MTB is a Whyte 29C which is quite a race geometry bike, fairly hunched over. I set the road bike up with the same dimensions as the Whyte and that was terrible!

Hopefully someone who is somewhat of an expert on this can tell me where to start? Before I throw it off a bridge! I don't really trust my local shops either. Sorry if this sounded a bit ranty but I really am getting fed up, and I'm getting annoyed with myself for not having the knowledge on how to fix this.

MichaelW

read this

carbineacs

Thanks, that looks like the best article I've read so far. Most annoying thing is that the bike fit at my local shop didn't do any of that... it makes more sense when you read it like that. Hopefully that will work. The part about strain on your back when not holding onto the bars is interesting. I bet I can't do it, probably putting way too much pressure on my arms. Probably my tilt and rail position I think! I may have been concentrating on my bars too much I think.

Doris Day

Seems small for your size. Any chance of a pic of you sitting on the bike.


Try this site

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Store ... orBike.jsp

you need a tape measure.

kajjal

I know what you mean coming from mountain biking. When I first got my road bike it gave me knee, back, ankle pain and the saddle attacked me !!!!!

I solved the saddle problem by measuring myself up for a saddle properly and found I needed a wider one. Bought a wider saddle with a cutaway in the middle and no pain since even after a few hours. This sounds like the main problem you have.

The rest was adjusting the setup of the bike gradually over a couple of weeks. The best way to setup a bike simply is first to get the saddle at the right height and also use KOPS as a starting point to the best forward / backward position on the saddles rails for you. As you move the saddle on the rails you may need to adjust the height again slightly. I have the saddle a bit further foward than KOPS as it is more comfortable for me.

Next think about what riding position you want, head down racer or more upright touring position. My bike is set more upright than most with about an inch of drop from the saddle to the bars. I spend most of my time riding on the hoods so this is fine for me. Some like it more level others with more drop. Also think about the reach to your preferred riding position. Are the bars, hoods, drops too close or too far away. To help with this you can buy adjustable stems to play with until you get what you want.

Most riders get some minor hand or shoulder discomfort on longer rides, I just change from the hoods to the bars for a few minutes and stand up and stretch on the bike now and then. This is normal unless you have to do it frequently on the ride.

Compared to my XC mountain bike road bikes need to be setup very accurately or become torture devices. The upside is I have now adjusted the setup of my mountain bike with what I learnt which is also a lot better now.

Good luck, hopefully not too much rambling

smoggysteve

Seems small to me. I'm 5'7" and ride a 53cm

You could let it out a bit of course with seat adjustment and a longer stem but you may be borderline.

carbineacs

SmoggySteve wrote:

Seems small to me. I'm 5'7" and ride a 53cm

You could let it out a bit of course with seat adjustment and a longer stem but you may be borderline.

I might be going wrong there too then.. I'm thinking the stem was too long.. I put a 70cm one on (was 100) and put the saddle a bit further forward, making it smaller! Interesting that you're on a 53. You have no pain at all? How long is your stem, and do you have your saddle forward or back?

I will use the article posted above but I'm interested in what other people do.

carbineacs

Thanks Kajjal, appreciated. Yeah I'm starting to understand from you all that it looks like step one is to get the saddle right, then adjust the bars to be comfortable from that. It's like setting up a track car! You adjust one small thing like camber and it throws every other setting off and you need to start again. No I don't mind reading rambling, good advice in there! I think my friends that ride road bikes were lucky, none of them really adjusted their setup and none of them have any aches from 30 mile + rides, and we've all been riding the same sort of distance. Mine was painful from the start. Maybe I'm just built weird!!

StillGoing

Your frame does sound too small for your height. Your best bet is to pay the money and go and get a proper fitting done with a fitting specialist rather than the LBS. KOPS (Knee over pedal spindle) is fair enough and a good starting point, but it isn't the be all and end all. Slightly in front doesn't seem to bother people, but behind does although some MTB riders advocate it for climbing. Your saddle height needs to be high or low enough to give a leg extension at the bottom somewhere near to 143' and somewhere near to 70' at the top. Your saddle fore and aft will then need to be checked again for KOPS.

http://bikedynamics.co.uk/guidelines.htm

styxd

Sounds like you've bascially cocked up the fit and ended up with your saddle-bar distance far too short (with the saddle forward and a 70mm stem) which forces you to sit in a uncomfortable upright position. You probably need to move you saddle back, put a long stem on it and let yourself stretch out and fill the space. This will probably involve you sitting differently on the saddle and may take a bit of getting used to. Read the first link posted, it's a useful one.

carbineacs

Yup, will try and do it this weekend :-)

Doris Day

I think you may be better off getting a new bike. You can only do so many adjustments to the stem and saddle
before it effects your riding position for the worse.

At 5ft 6 i ride a 52 sized frame (Day One Single Speed).

Did you get advised to get the size you did by the bike shop?

carbineacs

Yeah, they said the 'medium' was the right one for me. I think it's more me than the bike, my friend has the model down from mine and he never has a problem with his. He got a large, but he's 6'.

I will see how it goes once I get some time to do all of the above. There is quite a lot. Turns out the art of setting up a bike is a lot more work than riding the sodding thing!

deimosjohnny

I am 5'7" and on a 53cm.
Granted I am new to this but come from MTB i was in agony on my first ride arse, back, legs, neck.
You tubed "bike fit" and watch two videos then had the wife help me KNOPS and see if I was wiggling.
Tonight wow, far more comfortable tired legs from the work out and arse is only sore from last night but more comfortable in the saddle for the ride.

I tried a 52cm in LBS and it was too small for me.

g00se

Looking at the geometry for that bike:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165710

The effective top tube for the 51cm frame is 56cm. So I would say the size is actually a bit too big. At 5'8", I would be looking at an effective top tube around 54cm.


It's very common for different manufacturers to size bikes differently nowadays - as they use compact geometry. before then, all top tubes were horizontal - so specifying the frame was more uniform (the measurement is normally of the seat tube).

When folks talk of frame sizes without reference to geometry charts, most talk in terms of the older frame styles. That medium of yours would be nearer 55cm.

carbineacs

g00se wrote:

Looking at the geometry for that bike:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165710

The effective top tube for the 51cm frame is 56cm. So I would say the size is actually a bit too big. At 5'8", I would be looking at an effective top tube around 54cm.


It's very common for different manufacturers to size bikes differently nowadays - as they use compact geometry. before then, all top tubes were horizontal - so specifying the frame was more uniform (the measurement is normally of the seat tube).

When folks talk of frame sizes without reference to geometry charts, most talk in terms of the older frame styles. That medium of yours would be nearer 55cm.

Now I'm even more confused! So putting a shorter stem on it probably was a good idea? Once I use the first posters website to work out the saddle hight, reach and angle then I guess I will know. With the bars, I'm thinking start with the stem upside down at its highest angle, and at the top of the steerer tube. Then if that's too high, lower it by 5mm at a time until I don't feel comfortable anymore, then raise it 5 - 10 mm up again. But that will probably throw the tilt of the saddle off and it won't feel right anymore. I always feel like it is too big, like I'm having to stretch to reach the hoods. But then putting the shorter stem on made it a lot worse.. I wish I knew of somewhere local that I could trust to set it up for me, to take all the guess work out!

styxd

Post some pictures of you sat on the bike with both feet on the pedals in riding position.

goonz

Sounds like you have meddled with the set up way too much and dont let yourself get used to the bike before meddling with it again. Are you using cleats at all?

I would suggest doing what everyone else has suggested above and also post some pics here. what body shape are you? Can help with determining how you should ride your bike. I.e. if you are fairly slim an flexible you would be able to ride in a more aggressive position and potentially more likely to get used to riding in these positions. youmay have too much weight on your upper body hence arm and shoulder pain.

g00se

Also, where are you based? Someone may know of a decent place nearby to get it set up.

smoggysteve

A few basic settings I use to make sure my bike is reasonably close to being correctly setup are

1. Putting my elbow on front edge of saddle, tip of little finger is in line with centre of top cap.
2. With saddle in the armpit, reach down and touch centre of crank ( fingers in middle again)
3. On drops, hub should be obscured by width of handlebars. Neither ahead or behind stem.
4. Toes do not intersect front wheels turning circle when clipped in (cleat position)

Now this is not a perfect setup and will be different for everyone but it is just a loose guide to make sure you are not massively out. I would use this as a default to test and adjust on on a new bike if I were using someone elses or hiring etc. In no way does it replace a bike fit but for a quick setup it works just fine.

homers_double

I've been thinking of a bike fit but £110 for a medium fit at the velodrome in Manchester seems a bit steep.

Any thoughts?

kajjal

If you read up on bike setup / fitting for most people you can easily do it yourself if you take your time. For people with specific issues, medical problems, ride to a high standard or long distances a professional bike fit can be very useful. If you do go for one have an idea in your head of what you are aiming to get as not everyone wants a head down racing position.

carbineacs

g00se wrote:

Also, where are you based? Someone may know of a decent place nearby to get it set up.

I'm in Thetford, Norfolk. Thanks!

g00se

carbineacs wrote:

g00se wrote:

Also, where are you based? Someone may know of a decent place nearby to get it set up.

I'm in Thetford, Norfolk. Thanks!

Streetlife in Norwich will be good for a fit. Ring them up and book a fitting with Tim - they do different levels of fit in there.

carbineacs

Old thread I know.. but I finally got this sorted.
I went to see an ex pro at 'The Footlab' near Norwich and he spend around 4 hours on me.

I actually did buy a new road bike, (Cannondale CAAD8) and set it up how I thought best and It was agony after 15 miles..

He changed the saddle height down by 44mm, tilt (nose at 0 degrees), rails, stem (much shorter) and cleats. What a difference, I did a 55 mile ride on Saturday and although it felt really weird, it was comfortable and it was my legs that gave out, not because of pain!

He did all of this whilst showing the power output of my legs and it was amazing to see the smoothness of my leg action changing as he adjusted my bike in realtime with jigs and lasers etc.

It was well worth the money, now it's all come together with a much lighter bike, my fitness increase and now no pain, I'm loving being on the bike again and can't wait to get out again!

Thanks all for the advise, in the end it just required someone seeing me in person and not having me faff with things I don't understand properly! I will leave the bio-mechanics to the experts and concentrate on riding faster from now on...

smoggysteve

How much was the 4 hr fitting session

carbineacs

£160. I had a 'normal' fit before from a LBS for something like £40 but it was useless. I think £160 is worth it for being able to enjoy road riding properly, and the piece of mind that you know your bike has been properly fit to your bike, and that you're not doing yourself any damage.

Moonbiker

Post a picture up am intrested to see what your fit looks like. 8)

BLW

I'm a 5'6 (lady) and avid MTB'ker, short torso, longish legs but my road bike is 54cm frame and I jack my seat up a fair bit, so I can only imagine you may feel a bit cramped up on it.

It takes a good 4 months (in my experience) to build up your core strength when riding a RB (even if you have been used to using a MTB) before the little niggles and aches wear off when stating out on a RB and you can right with light hands (I sound a bit like a I’m giving horse riding lessons here) but it’s a similar kind of thing, when you start off you’ll rely on the handles and the front end of the bike more, which will put stress on your arms, shoulders and back but you condition your body into using the RB, you’ll soon find that your front end lightens, you can actually still lean forward and not rely on the bars at all, all your shift from your arms and bottom and goes through into your peddles more, evens all the weight out and you absorb the bumps much better.

Strange as it seems, I find my road bike (and there’s not a hint of carbon on it) along with its rock hard skinny tyres, is actually now much more comfortable to ride on the roads than my hard tail MTB …you’d think with the suspension and tyres it would always come up trumps for comfort, but now I’ve made the right adjustments and increased my core strength, when I first started using it though, god….it was a complete bone shaker! felt like a nightmare to ride on lol.

Having said all that though, you could make all the tweaks you wanted but it won’t make a difference if it’s the frame that’s too small.

Halfords are pretty sh*te at bike fit, I got mine from Halfords (both the MB and the RB) and they didn’t have a doggy blue about sizing you up on the right bike let alone adjusting bars or seat posts, thankfully I’d just done a bit of my own homework on the tinterweb and did my own bike fit for the frame, then made my tweaks after several outings until I got it just right.

Mikey23

Plus one for the above, light hands and core strength is what it is. My spesh roubaix has been properly set up for me and i could ride it all day and stay comfy. On holiday and having to use a cannondale hybrid and my wrists are aching like crazy after even short rides

fitmang

I've been getting some pain in my knees. Do knee wraps work?