am i wasting my money

radiation man

im thinking of buying a colnago clx 3.0 carbon frame, to build up but will the bike be any better then my current trek 1.5 red and white bike.

passout

'Better' would depend on the criteria you use. In terms of value the answer might be no but in most other ways the answer will be yes. Also depends on the build - I assume its going to better than the Trek, nicer wheels etc. Hard to say without much information.

ugo.santalucia

No

But, you can probably pick something equivalent from the likes of Planet X for a third of the price... in that respect yes, you are wasting your money

ianbar

not sure vfm comes into count with many cycling purchases, if you want it and can afford it....why not do it!

dilatory

ianbar wrote:

if you want it....why not do it!

cycleclinic

wasting money yes but you get the feel good factor and that is important too. brand new cars are a waste of money and it does not stop people buying them. I drive a £500 25 year old BMW so I can spend more on bikes in particular Royce titanium hubs ( a real waste of money). Value for money I think in my world anyway. It beats heroin which is equally addictive.

veronese68

Will it make you happy? Can you afford it?
If the answer to both of these is yes you are not wating your money. If the answer is no to either, you are indeed wasting your money.

mfin

thecycleclinic wrote:

wasting money yes but you get the feel good factor and that is important too. brand new cars are a waste of money and it does not stop people buying them. I drive a £500 25 year old BMW so I can spend more on bikes in particular Royce titanium hubs ( a real waste of money). Value for money I think in my world anyway. It beats heroin which is equally addictive.

You say this heroin you've had is only equivalently addictive as Royce Titanium Hubs? That doesn't seem right at all, the only explanation is you must have had some crap heroin. Why don't you take it back and see if you can change it because it really should be doing a better job than that.

smoggysteve

If the satisfaction of building somerhing yourself means much to you then yes. Even if its not the most cost effective way. Plus it is a Colnago

passout

mfin wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

wasting money yes but you get the feel good factor and that is important too. brand new cars are a waste of money and it does not stop people buying them. I drive a £500 25 year old BMW so I can spend more on bikes in particular Royce titanium hubs ( a real waste of money). Value for money I think in my world anyway. It beats heroin which is equally addictive.

You say this heroin you've had is only equivalently addictive as Royce Titanium Hubs? That doesn't seem right at all, the only explanation is you must have had some crap heroin. Why don't you take it back and see if you can change it because it really should be doing a better job than that.

Enjoyment and addiction are different - just saying.....

mfin

passout wrote:

mfin wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

wasting money yes but you get the feel good factor and that is important too. brand new cars are a waste of money and it does not stop people buying them. I drive a £500 25 year old BMW so I can spend more on bikes in particular Royce titanium hubs ( a real waste of money). Value for money I think in my world anyway. It beats heroin which is equally addictive.

You say this heroin you've had is only equivalently addictive as Royce Titanium Hubs? That doesn't seem right at all, the only explanation is you must have had some crap heroin. Why don't you take it back and see if you can change it because it really should be doing a better job than that.

Enjoyment and addiction are different - just saying.....

Yeah but he said addictive, if it was enjoyment then the heroin should win hands down too as the other is a hub from a bicycle wheel, either way you look at it it must have been crap heroin.

tlw1

are you posting because you doubt your decision? Or looking for us to give you reasons to do it that will satisfy your partner?

ugo.santalucia

Same point as before... the difference between the Colnago and the Planet X is that one has a Colnago sticker... if you can get over it, there is some serious money to be saved... just convince yourself that Beppe Saronni won the worlds on a Planet X Mexico frame and you'll be fine.

They do sell some seriously good looking and competitive frames... it's not second tier stuff

cycleclinic

My word debating the merits of a not very good joke.

holiver

Mmmmm heroin...

paul1000

If it puts a smile on you face when you ride it, yes. They all do the same thing but when you know you are riding something special, that makes all the difference.

ugo.santalucia

Paul1000 wrote:

If it puts a smile on you face when you ride it, yes. They all do the same thing but when you know you are riding something special, that makes all the difference.

It's cheaper to train yourself to believe that you are riding something special even if it says Planet X... some of their frames look awesome in the flash... and Colnago are no longer special

mfin

holiver wrote:

Mmmmm heroin...

Lovely isn't it, couldn't eat a whole bowl though.

mfin

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Paul1000 wrote:

If it puts a smile on you face when you ride it, yes. They all do the same thing but when you know you are riding something special, that makes all the difference.

It's cheaper to train yourself to believe that you are riding something special even if it says Planet X... some of their frames look awesome in the flash... and Colnago are no longer special

Colnago still do some great bikes (admittedly the C60 is gopping). But, with bikes the beauty is often wrapped up in the brand yes.

ugo.santalucia

mfin wrote:

Colnago still do some great bikes (admittedly the C60 is gopping). But, with bikes the beauty is often wrapped up in the brand yes.

I am 99% sure a test on frames with no decals on would give surprising results (or unsurprising, depends where you stand).
I am totally for quality parts, even if they cost big money, but it seems to me these days frames are much of a muchness, you probably get more cracked Cervelo than you get cracked Cinarello and the same problems you find on a Chinago, you will find on a De Rosa or a Dogma.

I have seen these in the flash and if you like carbon, they look awesome and at 20-30% of the price of an Italian pseudo-brand it's really a no brainer

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRPXROT57 ... e-and-fork

mfin

ugo.santalucia wrote:

mfin wrote:

Colnago still do some great bikes (admittedly the C60 is gopping). But, with bikes the beauty is often wrapped up in the brand yes.

I am 99% sure a test on frames with no decals on would give surprising results (or unsurprising, depends where you stand).
I am totally for quality parts, even if they cost big money, but it seems to me these days frames are much of a muchness, you probably get more cracked Cervelo than you get cracked Cinarello and the same problems you find on a Chinago, you will find on a De Rosa or a Dogma.

I have seen these in the flash and if you like carbon, they look awesome and at 20-30% of the price of an Italian pseudo-brand it's really a no brainer

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRPXROT57 ... e-and-fork

It depends whether it is a no brainer though, for instance I can say having ridden a Planet X Pro quite a bit I'd rate that as the least inspiring carbon frame I've ridden out of the dozen or so I've really had fair chance to get a good opinion on. That Planet X, compared to my Colnago (which is the best to ride carbon bike I've put proper mileage on) is nowhere near as nice an experience to ride, regardless of what they both look like. But, that being said, they all get you from a to b.

At 'entry level' into the bigger brands though, I agree, there's not so much advantage at all, you do seem to pay for branding.

ugo.santalucia

mfin wrote:

It depends whether it is a no brainer though, for instance I can say having ridden a Planet X Pro quite a bit I'd rate that as the least inspiring carbon frame I've ridden out of the dozen or so I've really had fair chance to get a good opinion on. That Planet X, compared to my Colnago (which is the best to ride carbon bike I've put proper mileage on) is nowhere near as nice an experience to ride, regardless of what they both look like. But, that being said, they all get you from a to b.

Quantify... what's the difference? The PX is slower? Is the geometry wrong?

DiscoBoy

mfin wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

mfin wrote:

Colnago still do some great bikes (admittedly the C60 is gopping). But, with bikes the beauty is often wrapped up in the brand yes.

I am 99% sure a test on frames with no decals on would give surprising results (or unsurprising, depends where you stand).
I am totally for quality parts, even if they cost big money, but it seems to me these days frames are much of a muchness, you probably get more cracked Cervelo than you get cracked Cinarello and the same problems you find on a Chinago, you will find on a De Rosa or a Dogma.

I have seen these in the flash and if you like carbon, they look awesome and at 20-30% of the price of an Italian pseudo-brand it's really a no brainer

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRPXROT57 ... e-and-fork

It depends whether it is a no brainer though, for instance I can say having ridden a Planet X Pro quite a bit I'd rate that as the least inspiring carbon frame I've ridden out of the dozen or so I've really had fair chance to get a good opinion on. That Planet X, compared to my Colnago (which is the best to ride carbon bike I've put proper mileage on) is nowhere near as nice an experience to ride, regardless of what they both look like. But, that being said, they all get you from a to b.

At 'entry level' into the bigger brands though, I agree, there's not so much advantage at all, you do seem to pay for branding.

You enjoyed a borrowed planetx (let me guess, not the top of their range?) less than a colnago (let me guess, a c59?) that you spent thousands of pounds buying?

Well, there's a surprise...

I bet that the wheels, tyres, finishing kit and gruppo were the same, too?

mfin

DiscoBoy wrote:

You enjoyed a borrowed planetx (let me guess, not the top of their range?) less than a colnago (let me guess, a c59?) that you spent thousands of pounds buying?

Well, there's a surprise...

I bet that the wheels, tyres, finishing kit and gruppo were the same, too?

Wheels etc have been close enough to form an opinion, plus if you read I was also saying entry level premium brand bikes do compare more. But you didn't even read it anyway as you didn't have to 'guess, not the top of their range?' because I said which particular model it was.

The point is, there are vast differences in the ride between cheap and costly bikes, but at the lower end of the premium brands then the gap is indeed closed right down. That is something I have confirmed in my experience a few times too.

ugo.santalucia

mfin wrote:

The point is, there are vast differences in the ride between cheap and costly bikes,

What differences? I am under the impression they are often the same thing without stickers and fancy paintwork...

mfin

ugo.santalucia wrote:

mfin wrote:

The point is, there are vast differences in the ride between cheap and costly bikes,

What differences? I am under the impression they are often the same thing without stickers and fancy paintwork...

You know all bikes are not the same, are you really trying to make out that all that more money can buy you is stickers and paintwork? Of course you're not. Of course there are instances when you're buying the same frame at a different price, but that doesn't apply to the higher end bikes.

Doesn't matter though, as long as to you you enjoy what you ride, who cares. It's only ever a personal experience.

ugo.santalucia

mfin wrote:

You know all bikes are not the same, are you really trying to make out that all that more money can buy you is stickers and paintwork? Of course you're not. Of course there are instances when you're buying the same frame at a different price, but that doesn't apply to the higher end bikes.

Doesn't matter though, as long as to you you enjoy what you ride, who cares. It's only ever a personal experience.

I am not making out anything... as I understand most carbon frames are made in a very small number of factories... so what's different about the Planet X compared to the Colnago? For example my aftermarket carbon fork is made in the same factory that makes the top end Felt frames, I doubt it is significantly different from the latter.
If you can't put in words what is so dramatically different, it looks to me as they are not so different after all.
Colnago do make a small number of frames in Italy, but I don't think the OP one is one of them and whether they are better is very questionable

neeb

I can see both sides of this - some frames are definitely better than others, but the relationship between cost and quality is rather unpredictable. By better I mean that they suffer less from the trade-offs you get in worse frames between weight, stiffness, road feel etc. Many cheap frames can be stiff but also heavy and dead-feeling, or they can be light but flexy. Better frames manage to be both light and stiff with a good road feel, probably due to a more expensive manufacturing process that uses a more complex lay-up and better grades of pre-prepared carbon sheets.

Some factories clearly produce both higher and lower quality frames, because some brands market different models at different price points that are made in the same factories but differ quantifiably in weight and (if you believe the German Tour magazine tests) the sort of stiffness that affects handling and power transfer.