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Tubeless Handbuilt Wheelset For Climbing

Masey1980Masey1980 Posts: 27
edited April 2014 in Road buying advice
I am interested in having some wheels built and having recently converted my winter single speed to tubeless I am keen to go down the same route with my decent bike.
These wheels will be used in fair weather, I weigh 74kgs and am Iooking for some light wheels that'll climb well, Etape du Dales next month and an Alps trip later in the year, generally speaking I don't buckle/damage wheels and I'm no power house!
I have done a large amount of research, reviews, forums etc. and I think I’m almost at the point of committing. I’m thinking Stans Alpha 340 rims 24/28H, cx-ray spokes and Novatec hubs. I’ve observed through the forums that many builders are not keen on these rims, is there a better option for tubeless? I would prefer the hubs to be light rather than having better weather sealing. Originally I’d looked at 20/24H rims but considered that the marginal extra weight of 24/28H would pay off in terms of stiffness and durability?
My current wheels, DA 7850 C24’s are nearing the end of their life, worn rims, has anyone gone from these to a build similar to my proposed?
I have emailed thecycleclinic regarding this build and await a response, any advice (Ugo, cycleclinic etc.) would be appreciated prior to me commiting to a build which may or may not be the most suitable for me.

Posts

  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,031
    As a tubeless system, Stan's is the best. The 340 are OK rims, but the brake track will last very little is you use them in the wet or dirt. Pacenti are tubeless ready, A 23 are tubeless ready and the Archetype can be ran tubeless easily.

    CX Ray are bolloxx of course...
    left the forum March 2023
  • Masey1980Masey1980 Posts: 27
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    As a tubeless system, Stan's is the best. The 340 are OK rims, but the brake track will last very little is you use them in the wet or dirt. Pacenti are tubeless ready, A 23 are tubeless ready and the Archetype can be ran tubeless easily.

    CX Ray are bolloxx of course...

    Ugo,
    To clarify, assume each rim cost the same (I'm fully aware they don't!), which would you recommend with my criteria?
    Also please elaborate on the CX Ray comment? Thanks.
  • djhermerdjhermer Posts: 328
    I'm currently having the following built up:

    Pacenti rims
    Hope RS mono hubs
    Cx ray spokes (20/24)
    Hutchinson fusion tubeless

    The builder (Matt gibbons spire cycles) received the rims yesterday and said they are amazing - probably the best he's used.

    Cx ray are bollox as Ugo said. But I'm a poseur. Ugo also has issues with Hutchinson. But I'm informed they are a good tyre.

    Very excited about the build. It would seem to suit your requirement. Hubs and spokes can be changed to suit budget, aesthetic etc.

    But the Pacenti, although not as cheap as alternatives, is seemingly a good option. I can't say yet....
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,031
    djhermer wrote:
    Ugo also has issues with Hutchinson. .

    I didn't know I had... :shock: My only comment is that I would like a bit more choice, it's not the first tyre I would buy... but I don't have an opinion on Hutchinson as I have never tried them.
    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,031
    Masey1980 wrote:
    Ugo,
    To clarify, assume each rim cost the same (I'm fully aware they don't!), which would you recommend with my criteria?
    Also please elaborate on the CX Ray comment? Thanks.

    Either the Stans as 24/32 or the Pacenti as 24/28 or the new HED Belgium + as 20/24
    I have seen far too many CX Ray seized in the nipple... they give more trouble than they are worth... they don't last longer than other spokes, for what I have seen. Front wheel CX Ray yes, rear... no, use Sapim Race or DT comp
    left the forum March 2023
  • Masey1980Masey1980 Posts: 27
    djhermer wrote:
    I'm currently having the following built up:

    Pacenti rims
    Hope RS mono hubs
    Cx ray spokes (20/24)
    Hutchinson fusion tubeless

    The builder (Matt gibbons spire cycles) received the rims yesterday and said they are amazing - probably the best he's used.

    Cx ray are bollox as Ugo said. But I'm a poseur. Ugo also has issues with Hutchinson. But I'm informed they are a good tyre.

    Very excited about the build. It would seem to suit your requirement. Hubs and spokes can be changed to suit budget, aesthetic etc.

    But the Pacenti, although not as cheap as alternatives, is seemingly a good option. I can't say yet....

    Sounds like a very nice build, what is the expected cost without tyres valves etc, also what weight are you expecting?

    I've been using Hutchinsons Intensive on my SS and although only a few hundred miles in I'm sold on tubeless :D
  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    A chap in our club had a set of wheels built with Stans rims especially for the Alps. Unfortunately he had the tyre blow off the rim as he cornered whilst descending and a few times afterwards. Wondered if anyone else had this happen using these rims?
    Norfolk, who nicked all the hills?

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/243 ... 8d.jpg?v=0
    http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 076tl5.jpg
    http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3407 ... e001af.jpg
  • maddog 2maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    The Hutchinson Fusion3s in 25mm are a good tubeless option. That's what I'm running at the moment (on Archetypes). I was also a fan of the ride of Bonty R3s but they wear too fast.
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,031
    markos1963 wrote:
    A chap in our club had a set of wheels built with Stans rims especially for the Alps. Unfortunately he had the tyre blow off the rim as he cornered whilst descending and a few times afterwards. Wondered if anyone else had this happen using these rims?

    Tubeless tyres? They are really meant to take tubeless tyres if you want to pump them up
    left the forum March 2023
  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    markos1963 wrote:
    A chap in our club had a set of wheels built with Stans rims especially for the Alps. Unfortunately he had the tyre blow off the rim as he cornered whilst descending and a few times afterwards. Wondered if anyone else had this happen using these rims?

    Tubeless tyres? They are really meant to take tubeless tyres if you want to pump them up

    Yes they were. I had heard he had pumped them up to something really high but not sure how high.
    Norfolk, who nicked all the hills?

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/243 ... 8d.jpg?v=0
    http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 076tl5.jpg
    http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3407 ... e001af.jpg
  • Masey1980Masey1980 Posts: 27
    markos1963 wrote:
    A chap in our club had a set of wheels built with Stans rims especially for the Alps. Unfortunately he had the tyre blow off the rim as he cornered whilst descending and a few times afterwards. Wondered if anyone else had this happen using these rims?

    I believe this is a known issue when using innertubes with non tubeless tyres, not aware of this happening with tubeless specific tyres?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,031
    markos1963 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    markos1963 wrote:
    A chap in our club had a set of wheels built with Stans rims especially for the Alps. Unfortunately he had the tyre blow off the rim as he cornered whilst descending and a few times afterwards. Wondered if anyone else had this happen using these rims?

    Tubeless tyres? They are really meant to take tubeless tyres if you want to pump them up

    Yes they were. I had heard he had pumped them up to something really high but not sure how high.

    Something really high which became even higher when braking down the alps... it happens on clinchers too. Tubeless tyres should go under 100 PSI
    left the forum March 2023
  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    markos1963 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    markos1963 wrote:
    A chap in our club had a set of wheels built with Stans rims especially for the Alps. Unfortunately he had the tyre blow off the rim as he cornered whilst descending and a few times afterwards. Wondered if anyone else had this happen using these rims?

    Tubeless tyres? They are really meant to take tubeless tyres if you want to pump them up

    Yes they were. I had heard he had pumped them up to something really high but not sure how high.

    Something really high which became even higher when braking down the alps... it happens on clinchers too. Tubeless tyres should go under 100 PSI

    Thanks for that. I thought as much but it seemed strange as I would have thought that as the pressure rose the seal would be even greater?
    Norfolk, who nicked all the hills?

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/243 ... 8d.jpg?v=0
    http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 076tl5.jpg
    http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3407 ... e001af.jpg
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    I responded already but mentioning the same sort of things that ugo has already said. CX-ray's work as spokes but they are expensive. You will save quite alot by replacing them with Laser and they are the same weight and perform very similarly. The only thing CX-rays have going for them are the very marginal aero gains.

    If brass nipples are used on the CX-rays then the seizing issue goes away. With the Pacenti rim, as it so stiff, Laser spokes actually work quite well. The thicker spoke (sapim race) will make the wheel even stiffer but with Lasers I can assure you it is very stiff already and will not fall apart. Even a 24 spoke rear will work with the Pacenti rim for this riders weight.

    I forgot to price the 24F/28R Pacenti/Miche build for you I will pm you with that.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • djhermerdjhermer Posts: 328
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    djhermer wrote:
    Ugo also has issues with Hutchinson. .

    I didn't know I had... :shock: My only comment is that I would like a bit more choice, it's not the first tyre I would buy... but I don't have an opinion on Hutchinson as I have never tried them.

    Sorry. I'm certain i read a recent post in which you referred to the Hutchinson with something like "if you can face riding them" or something similar.

    Not that it matters. The lack of tubeless options will hopefully change for the better
    Soon.
  • djhermerdjhermer Posts: 328
    Masey1980 wrote:
    djhermer wrote:
    I'm currently having the following built up:

    Pacenti rims
    Hope RS mono hubs
    Cx ray spokes (20/24)
    Hutchinson fusion tubeless

    The builder (Matt gibbons spire cycles) received the rims yesterday and said they are amazing - probably the best he's used.

    Cx ray are bollox as Ugo said. But I'm a poseur. Ugo also has issues with Hutchinson. But I'm informed they are a good tyre.

    Very excited about the build. It would seem to suit your requirement. Hubs and spokes can be changed to suit budget, aesthetic etc.

    But the Pacenti, although not as cheap as alternatives, is seemingly a good option. I can't say yet....

    Sounds like a very nice build, what is the expected cost without tyres valves etc, also what weight are you expecting?

    I've been using Hutchinsons Intensive on my SS and although only a few hundred miles in I'm sold on tubeless :D

    Without checking exactly, Pacenti rims, hope hubs, black cx rays, black nipples £590. Don't know about weight. Not something I've really considered.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,031
    djhermer wrote:
    Sorry. I'm certain i read a recent post in which you referred to the Hutchinson with something like "if you can face riding them" or something similar.

    Not that it matters. The lack of tubeless options will hopefully change for the better
    Soon.

    That's exactly what I said... what I mean is that the majority of people probably never thought of buying a Hutchinson tyre... I am very fussy when it comes to tyres, so it would be a big step to buy a Hutchinson one (two actually)... if Vittoria made tubeless it would be a much easier transition for me
    left the forum March 2023
  • Masey1980Masey1980 Posts: 27
    Just an update on this one. Today I placed my order with Malcom @ thecycleclinic.

    Pacenti sl23 rims
    DA9000 hubs 24/28
    CX-Ray spokes (yes I know!)

    The reason for not opting for the Stans 340 rims is I'm led to believe they aren't as stiff as the Pacenti's and the fear of blowing a tyre off the rim if I decided to run with tubes, also the Pacenti's have a slight aero and stiffness advantage.

    Opting for DA9000 hubs is down to wanting long term durability and shimano reliability, in truth if 6800 hubs were available with a lower spoke count they'd have been a contender.

    CX-Rays, well just because.....

    Although this wheelset is heavier than I'd originally planned, approx 1550 grams, I have taken on board all the advice that's been given and done plenty of research!!
    Yes I could have opted for a 1350 gram wheelset for a lot less money, ultimately I guess what I've ended up with is an extremely durable, stiff, relatively light wheelset with an aero consideration.

    Fingers crossed this is ultimate all round wheelset for my type of riding, I'll report back in a few weeks when I get my hands on them! :D

    Thanks to everyone who's given sound advice, especially Malcom who has tolerated my numerous e-mails and phone calls!
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