Seven or Moots

jamie4759

Sorry all, another TI frame question. I have narrowed my choices re a new TI frame down to two; Moots Vammots and Seven Axiom S. I want the bike for fast club rides, century rides and for use in the winter (although at the prices the two frames are going for, I will be using it pretty much all through the year). I don’t want something that is sluggish, but equally I don’t want something that is super stiff (I have a carbon bike for that). I like both bikes, but I do like the custom option on the Seven, and the brushed finish. The Moots finish looks very elegant but I am concerned that clipping a guard on the back, and winter riding will scratch at the frame, and I think that the frame has a special finish that if scratched would need to go back to the US, which I wouldn't want to do. Anybody used either bike? Anyone any experiences with either company – good or bad?

schweiz

I looked at buying an Axiom when I bought my VN Euros. It was either the Axiom or the VN and a Cube Fully MTB. I plumped for the latter as on inspection, to me, there was nothing to justify the extra cost of the Seven. Admittedly the welding looked a little better but not worth twice the price.

Anyway, in terms of an all rounder I do club rides, gran fondos and winter rides and the frame is like new after 6 years. I just put two strips of insulation tape on the seat stays for when I attach the rear guard (SKS raceblade). So whetever you go for in the end I'd recommend a plain brushed finish.

meesterbond

If you're serious about either of these makes then I'd second one of the comments made on your other thread and get down to Bespoked at Lee Valley Velodrome next weekend and actually speak to the companies (or distributors etc) instead. There are reps from dozens of small manufacturers there so you'll get a much better idea of what you're after from talking to them and having a look over some of the bikes they display.

Oh, and if you're going to stick guards on it, then get them to weld some proper eyelets on and use proper mudguards rather than stick on ones. If you're paying that amount of money, do it properly.

Monty Dog

There are ways that guard mounts can be discretely added to a frame e.g. threaded bosses on the inside of the seat-stays - detachable guards like Race-blade aren't really as effective and do a good job of scuffing a finish IME.

If you go for a brushed finish as opposed to vapour blast (dull grey) or polished, then all you need is a suitable Scotchbrite pad to fix any scuffs. Any manufacturer can advise. I have two polished ti frames - they're easy to maintain.

As you're riding the bike all year, then you should seriously look at disc brakes IMO - lighter hubs and calipers means the weight penalty is minimal, particularly as you're not going for a Weightweenie build.

There are lots of high-end titanium builders who do an excellent job like Moots, Eriksen, Dean, Baum, Passoni, Legend - really down to how much you want to pay and how long you want to wait..

mrushton

There is a review of a Seven over on the cyclefit website. Lovely spendy bikes!

jamie4759

Thanks for the comments. All greatly received. I take the points re mudguards, but I have a steel fixed gear with mudguards that I use when riding in the winter, but, I don’t use this bike on club rides. I think I want a bike I can use in the winter and then take off the clip on guard (I've got the SKS guard that fixes to the bike but only goes up to the rear brake – not the raceblades) and ride it in the week when the weather is nice. Anybody got any views on the best clip in guards for 25 mm tyres? I don’t want the crud things.

wishitwasallflat

JAMIE4759 wrote:

Anybody got any views on the best clip in guards for 25 mm tyres? I don’t want the crud things.

Raceblade longs are about as good as it gets - don't give the same coverage as proper guards but clip on and off really easily and quickly.

jamie4759

Thanks for your advice. I do have some queries re mudguards. I want to use the bike for winter rides, fast group rides and general winter training, although when the weather is really bad I use my steel fixed gear which has mudguards attached. I can’t help thinking that bikes with mudguards tend to have a relaxed geometry and sometimes there is something missing from these bikes (Audax, light touring type bikes), hence the reason I wanted a bike that I could fix a mudguard on the back and then take off when the weather was better. However, I run 25 mm tyres and there are problems finding good clip on guards for tyres of this size. I am now in a quandary and do not know what to do about mudguards. Basically, I will probably only use mudguards for group rides and most of the riding I do in the week in the winter is on my own, which I would probably use my fixed gear for, or if I did use the new frame, I wouldn't worry so much about getting messed up. Also, I wash my bikes after each ride in the winter (I find it therapeutic – bizarre I know). If I had mudguards on the new frame I would use it a little more in the winter, however, I probably wouldn't use the bike as much in drier weather which would be a great shame for such a great frame. What do you use in the winter? I have had bikes with fixed mudguards before but, like I said earlier, I find them a bit sluggish and a little old fashioned. Very few riders in our clubs use full on guards, but they use 23 mm tyres which are easier to accommodate, and I love my 25 mm so I wouldn't want to change to smaller tyres. Sorry to labour the point - I am genuinely confused!!! :?:

wishitwasallflat

JAMIE4759 wrote:

Thanks for your advice. I do have some queries re mudguards. I want to use the bike for winter rides, fast group rides and general winter training, although when the weather is really bad I use my steel fixed gear which has mudguards attached. I can’t help thinking that bikes with mudguards tend to have a relaxed geometry and sometimes there is something missing from these bikes (Audax, light touring type bikes), hence the reason I wanted a bike that I could fix a mudguard on the back and then take off when the weather was better. However, I run 25 mm tyres and there are problems finding good clip on guards for tyres of this size. I am now in a quandary and do not know what to do about mudguards. Basically, I will probably only use mudguards for group rides and most of the riding I do in the week in the winter is on my own, which I would probably use my fixed gear for, or if I did use the new frame, I wouldn't worry so much about getting messed up. Also, I wash my bikes after each ride in the winter (I find it therapeutic – bizarre I know). If I had mudguards on the new frame I would use it a little more in the winter, however, I probably wouldn't use the bike as much in drier weather which would be a great shame for such a great frame. What do you use in the winter? I have had bikes with fixed mudguards before but, like I said earlier, I find them a bit sluggish and a little old fashioned. Very few riders in our clubs use full on guards, but they use 23 mm tyres which are easier to accommodate, and I love my 25 mm so I wouldn't want to change to smaller tyres. Sorry to labour the point - I am genuinely confused!!! :?:

Not sure if I'm missing the point of your query but Raceblades longs work fine with 25mm tyres (certainly on my Spesh Secteur frame and use search on here for previous posts from plenty others who've used them with 25s on other frames). They clip on and off really easily from the clips on the QRs and brakes leaving just the clips on the bike so no hassle in that respect and no way could they mark a frame.