7 fruit and veg portions a day

RonB

Looks like Robert Smith from The Cure has overdone it a bit…

RideOnTime

I'm not shy of salad but I think 7 portions would take some doing.

homers_double

We were talking about this last night, isn't it 7-10 portions?

I like a good plate of vedge or salad but I think its getting a bit silly.

buckmulligan

As a scientist (albeit not a nutritional one) I can assure you over the last 20-odd years the government have been pushing the 5-a-day mantra, there will have been a whole slew of scientific research advocating everything from a red-meat-only diet to a raw-vegan diet and everything in between. What you put credence in is entirely up to you.

Most responsible nutritionists would tell you there's no magic number and the more vegetables (in particular) and fruit you eat the better. The main thrust of this is that if you're eating an apple you're not eating a chocolate bar and if you're eating a side of veg you're not eating a side of chips.

I'm not a vegetarian, I'm too weak-willed to constrain myself to such a diet but I wish I could!

ugo.santalucia

I think it's very confusing... I find it hard to define " a portion"... I think the campaign should use more pictures to fix in people's head how much is one portion of salad or a portion of green beans... nobody weighs vegetables.
Also, if the 7 need be of a different variety, as I understand it is the case, you need to be quite creative to eat 7 portions of fruit and veg, without using shortcuts.

My feeling is that if you cook everything from scratch and do cook veg., you're probably on a 5 a day just because of that... add an apple and a banana and you should be fine

drlodge

ugo.santalucia wrote:

My feeling is that if you cook everything from scratch and do cook veg., you're probably on a 5 a day just because of that... add an apple and a banana and you should be fine

Agree. I have apple & banana in my lunch and sandwiches have a tomato and some cucumber. For dinner I may have a leek and a few carrots (probably about 3 portions worth of carrots!) so that's me done I reckon.

mpatts

Yesterday I ate:

Muesli (contains fruit)
2 bananas
Leftover chicken casserole (homemade, mucho veg)
Mid afternoon snack of yogurt and fruit and nuts
Baked spud and homemade baked beans (again, mucho vege)
2 tangerines

I'm probably there or there abouts with the 7 portions. However, the reason I eat so much fruit and veg is that I'm a bit of a glutton, and the only way I can sustain my 64kg frame is if I eat a lot of fruit and veg.

earth

BuckMulligan wrote:

The main thrust of this is that if you're eating an apple you're not eating a chocolate bar and if you're eating a side of veg you're not eating a side of chips.

Did I miss something? I thought potatoes were a vegetable.

Do they count as one of the 5,7 or 10 a day?

team47b

earth wrote:

BuckMulligan wrote:

The main thrust of this is that if you're eating an apple you're not eating a chocolate bar and if you're eating a side of veg you're not eating a side of chips.

Did I miss something? I thought potatoes were a vegetable.

Do they count as one of the 5,7 or 10 a day?

If you fry potato in vegetable oil and eat them with tomato ketchup does this count as three?

How on earth do you manage to only eat seven a day?

homers_double

Potato's don't count.

I guess a "portion" is about a handfull so based on that my intake today will be as follows

Breakfast:- Porridge (0)
Lunch:- Salad with a bit of meat (3)
Dinner:- Roast chicken and vedge (3)

Snacks:- None so far but maybe a piece of fruit when I get home (1)

Wooo, 7!

ai_1

These numbers are primarily a PR excercise. I doubt you'll find a credible study showing that 5 is better than 4 or 6 without a whole load of qualification in relation to veg varieties, level of cooking, portion size, meal timing, accompanying nutrients, persons age, sex, activity levels, etc, etc...

Most public information on nutrition misses the most important details and ends up as a marketing tool with food manufacturers printing "one of your 5 a day" on their packaging. It's mostly nonsense.

Eat plenty whole foods, mostly of vegetable origin and include a wide variety of foods in your diet.

For general health purposes that's about all you need to know. The rest is just confusion. Of course if you're an athlete or have a medical condition you may need to pay more attention to specifics but for most of us the above is sufficient and much more useful than the advice usually thrown about.

ronny123

Ai_1 wrote:

These numbers are primarily a PR excercise. I doubt you'll find a credible study showing that 5 is better than 4 or 6 without a whole load of qualification in relation to veg varieties, level of cooking, portion size, meal timing, accompanying nutrients, persons age, sex, activity levels, etc, etc...

Most public information on nutrition misses the most important details and ends up as a marketing tool with food manufacturers printing "one of your 5 a day" on their packaging. It's mostly nonsense.

Eat plenty whole foods, mostly of vegetable origin and include a wide variety of foods in your diet.

For general health purposes that's about all you need to know. The rest is just confusion. Of course if you're an athlete or have a medical condition you may need to pay more attention to specifics but for most of us the above is sufficient and much more useful than the advice usually thrown about.

Thoroughly agree. Much else is just varying degrees of bowlox.

drlodge

I think "eating a healthy, balanced diet" just about covers it, the quantity of which depends on your calorie needs.

ai_1

homers double wrote:

Potato's don't count.

I can't decide if you're kidding or you actually think potatoes are some sort of exception :?:

[Edit]
Okay, out of curiosity I just looked this up (admittedly on Wikipedia) and found this:
"In the UK, potatoes are not considered by the NHS as counting towards the five portions of fruit and vegetables diet"

So, while I maintain that this is idiotic and just highlights the arbitrary nature the whole "5 a day" you have my apology - It would seem your view is consistent with the NHS in the UK.

NANS295

Potatoes don't count.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/5ADAY/Pages/Whatcounts.aspx

homers_double

Ai_1 wrote:

homers double wrote:

Potato's don't count.

I can't decide if you're kidding or you actually think potatoes are some sort of exception :?:

Don't count towards your "5 a day"

ai_1

homers double wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

homers double wrote:

Potato's don't count.

I can't decide if you're kidding or you actually think potatoes are some sort of exception :?:

Don't count towards your "5 a day"

I was updating my previous post with a [partial] retraction when yourself and NANS295 responded.
See above^

However, I'm neither in or from the UK. I don't know if Ireland or other countries assert the same potato exception. If not then I need only concede that, in the UK, potatoes don't count

graham.

You saying that cold chips don't count as "Salad"?

homers_double

Its almost as bad as saying the crunch bacon bits you can buy aren't salad either!

Frank the tank

7 portions a day, what a load of old tosh.

They say the time our population was at it's healthiest was during the second war, crikey if you saw 7 portions of F&V in a month you were lucky. think the current problem is as much to do with eating excess sugar,salt and fat rather than not enough veg.

I love veg and make sure I get plenty of it.

Peddle Up!

I'd like to hear more about the active mechanism by which large(r) quantities of fruit and vegetables protect ones health. I suspect that part of the benefit comes from moving away from processed food.

ugo.santalucia

Peddle Up! wrote:

I'd like to hear more about the active mechanism by which large(r) quantities of fruit and vegetables protect ones health. I suspect that part of the benefit comes from moving away from processed food.

True, but...
There are antioxidants in fresh fruit and veg... there are vitamins and essential minerals... there is fibre which is good to avoid getting a bowel cancer...
You can have a diet of non processed food which is poor in fruit and veg... e.g. eating lots of meat and potatoes

Pross

Surely all the 5 a day thing is for is to get idle people who live off fast food to start thinking about eating something healthy and fruit and veg are basically food at its most natural? I was surprised at the fuss around this yesterday as I had never thought anyone was suggesting that 5 was the optimum. I love veg and you can basically eat as much as you want without worrying about your calorie or fat intake. I lost 12 pound in 3 weeks last year on a diet limited to fruit, veg and meat / fish with a maximum 3% fat content - no limits at all on quantities. Once my body adapted to the lack of fat and sugar I didn't get hungry at all. I wish I'd stuck at it now!

squired

I can't guarantee it is true, but I remember reading many years ago that this whole thing was started off by produce growers in the US, who were trying to find a way to increase sales. It worked with the marketing of Diamonds, so why not for sales of food?

As someone that currently lives alone and works long hours, it is difficult to manage significant consumption of different fruit and veg every day without having a lot ending up in the bin. Add to that the fact that the price of fruit and veg is ever increasing, to the point where I sometimes wonder if those on a tight budget can actually afford it.

Interestingly, on the radio earlier this week they were saying that vegetables have a far higher importance than fruit in your 5 (or 7 or 9 or whatever) a day.

ugo.santalucia

squired wrote:

I can't guarantee it is true, but I remember reading many years ago that this whole thing was started off by produce growers in the US, who were trying to find a way to increase sales. It worked with the marketing of Diamonds, so why not for sales of food?

As someone that currently lives alone and works long hours, it is difficult to manage significant consumption of different fruit and veg every day without having a lot ending up in the bin. Add to that the fact that the price of fruit and veg is ever increasing, to the point where I sometimes wonder if those on a tight budget can actually afford it.

Interestingly, on the radio earlier this week they were saying that vegetables have a far higher importance than fruit in your 5 (or 7 or 9 or whatever) a day.

It sounds about right... but that doesn't mean it is a bad initiative... if they came out with a "you need 5 portions of alcohol a day" probably the message wouldn't have been embraced by the health associations. They tried the "a glass of red wine a day", but it clashes with the "no more than 10-20 units a week" message hence it's doomed.
Fruit and veg are expensive, starch and fat are cheap, time is often too short, but it's your life... I would say the money you spend in food is your best investment... better than a mortgage, better than anything I can think of, in fact

homers_double

True, and if you pass threough a council estate* you do tend to see alot more overweight people.

Fact is, it's cheaper to cook a fatty unhealthy meal than a healthy balanced diet.

There is a lot of debate to put a "Fat Tax" on junk and high fat foods, however sort of the opposite exists, there is no VAT on fresh produce, fruit etc.




*reply is no slur on council estates, those who live on one or overweight people

Pross

People often say fruit and veg is expensive. What are they comparing it to? I find it pretty cheap, the downside is that you have to buy little and often to avoid waste :?

homers_double

I suppose it depends on the product, is 50p for a kilo of carrots expensive? No.

Is £2 for a punnet of strawberries expensive? Enough for me not to have them every day.

There are places where fruit & vedge is cheap, Aldi and Lidl for two and funnily enough the same place where (and this is going to sound very Vtech of me) the under privilaged shop.

There are also the local markets but I find the produce doesn't last as long as the same item bought from asda, that said it probably half the price too.

ai_1

Pross wrote:

People often say fruit and veg is expensive. What are they comparing it to? I find it pretty cheap, the downside is that you have to buy little and often to avoid waste :?

Agreed.
Fruit and vegetables might be a bit expensive if you buy the tiny portions, pre-trimmed, prewashed and pre-packaged but if you buy some loose carrots, onions, tomatoes, apples, brocolli, (potatoes?), etc it's really not that expensive at all compared to anything but the very lowest quality processed food.

homers double wrote:

.....There are also the local markets but I find the produce doesn't last as long as the same item bought from asda, that said it probably half the price too.

It might be worth considering why the stuff from the markets doesn't last as long. Supermarkets have made a science, literally, of controlling ripening and shelf life of fruit and vegetables. With everything from selective breeding to refrigeration and gases used for supressing and triggering ripening. In my opinion the quest for uniform, pretty, long lasting fruit and veg has had a very detrimental effect on taste - I don't know if it's also had a negative effect on nutrition but that's quite possible too. The biggest victims of this that I've noticed are tomatoes. Most tomatoes are similar sized, unblemished and spherical but they have no flavour.....

homers_double

Completely agree with you on that one, have you seen the way a bag of salad thats packaged in nitrogen deteriorates once opened?

Something to do with accelerated deterioration I think.

ai_1

homers double wrote:

Completely agree with you on that one, have you seen the way a bag of salad thats packaged in nitrogen deteriorates once opened?

Something to do with accelerated deterioration I think.

It doesn't seem to last long but I don't know if it's the pre-washing, the nitrogen, something else or a combination.

On the subject of packaging gases - have you ever noticed how pink pre-packed beef looks? People seem to like bright coloured meat for some reason so now it's packed in a high oxygen atmosphere. If you cut a slit in the packaging, hold a match beside it and squeeze out some gas you should be able to see this. Don't do what I did and touch the match off the clear plastic cover - it caught light and vanished in a coupe of seconds with the help of the oxygen leaving me to scrape the drops of molten plastic off my steak!

I don't eat a huge amount of meat but when possible I buy it from a local butcher.