expensive spokes important? hand built vs factory wheels

jon1993

I am looking at getting a hope pro 2 evo on a crest rim for xc racing/dalby black. I was wondering are the better spokes worth the extra money as there £25 more expensive. The choices are below

Spokes ACI S/S DB


In stock


Spokes DT Plain Gauge


In stock


Spokes ACI S/S DB Black

+£6.00

In stock


Spokes DT Competition S/S Silver

+£9.00

In stock


Spokes DT Competition S/S Black

+£18.00

In stock


Spokes DT Revolution Silver

+£18.00

In stock


Spokes DT Revolution Black

jon1993

Also is there any benefit getting them hand built over just buying them off the shelf?

drlodge

Have them hand built, and seek advice of your experienced wheel builder. I would suggest stainless steel 2.0-1.8-2.0mm spokes so DT Competition or the like. A good reason to seek advice is to ensure the spoke lengths are spot on.

Chunkers1980

I don't think that's what he means.

drlodge

What does he mean then? And what do you mean? The more expensive spokes are not "better" - DT Competition are likely to be better suited to his needs than the more expensive Revolutions - which answers his question. Also, I would not advocate building a rear wheel with revolution spokes.

And he also asked about whether to hand build - and I say yes.

Does that answer his question, or would you like to :roll:

jon1993

I was thinking of getting it built by merlin cycles or is there anywhere else that does it better? I have looked at the reviews and seems like that is the best rim/hub combo I just know nothing about spokes so I was wondering what would be best, thanks for the help though

neiltb

merlin do a fine job building wheels and their turn around is quick (mine were 5 days delivered).

My last set I got from them (2001 and still running true on the commuter), I got the db spokes for a bit of lightness.

There will be better wheel builders out there, but I cannot attest to the time taken to deliver or how much better they can be.

supersonic

ACI (Alpina spokes) are high quality. No point spending extra on DT, unless they dont have the sizes you need. Always go double butted unless you must have the stiffest. ACI DB spokes are 2.0/1.7/2.0.

poah

just buy the prebuilt hope/crest combo from merlin. will be significantly cheaper.

stubs

I went for ACI spokes on supersonics reccomendation and so far they havent broken apart from the time a big rock smashed my rear mech into the spokes, even then they only bent didnt snap.

jon1993

surprisingly there the same price I am not sure how though £215 hand built. chain reaction for the same wheel is over £100 more

supersonic

Not many wheels are actually fully handbuilt built. Often machine built and tweeked, but machines are getting better.

njee20

The more expensive spokes are not "better" - DT Competition are likely to be better suited to his needs than the more expensive Revolutions - which answers his question. Also, I would not advocate building a rear wheel with revolution spokes.

Why? Define 'better'? Revolutions are lighter than Competitions (and ACIs), but not as strong. For a race wheelset I would (or have) take that benefit. Never broken one in several years of use.

Merlin's wheelbuilds get good reviews.

02gf74

stubs wrote:

I went for ACI spokes on supersonics reccomendation and so far they havent broken apart from the time a big rock smashed my rear mech into the spokes, even then they only bent didnt snap.

unless you repeat that many times using wheels with different spokes, it doesn't really prove anyting. :? who is to say a £ 25 crappy tesco bike wheel would not have survived in the same fashion?

jon1993

How much difference in weight is there likely to be between the aci, competition and revolutions will the difference be noticeable?

The Rookie

Plain gauge to double butted such as the ACI or comps will typically save about 40g/wheel (depedning on the number of spokes and exact lengths).

njee20

jon1993 wrote:

How much difference in weight is there likely to be between the aci, competition and revolutions will the difference be noticeable?

DT Champion Plain Gauge 2mm: 444g
DT Competition DB 2.0/1.8mm: 382g
DT Revolution 2.0/1.5mm: 283g

All weights for 64 spokes.

stubs

02GF74 wrote:

stubs wrote:

I went for ACI spokes on supersonics reccomendation and so far they havent broken apart from the time a big rock smashed my rear mech into the spokes, even then they only bent didnt snap.

unless you repeat that many times using wheels with different spokes, it doesn't really prove anyting. :? who is to say a £ 25 crappy tesco bike wheel would not have survived in the same fashion?

WTF are you on about

Chunkers1980

I think it means your story to vouch for their quality is not too strong.

stubs

Chunkers1980 wrote:

I think it means your story to vouch for their quality is not too strong.

Sorry I didnt realise we had to provide a peer reviewed double blind test when commenting on a spoke. In future I will get the National Hitting Things With Big Hammers Council of Great Britain to do my testing :roll:

jon1993

Thanks everyone I will order them with the standard spokes doesn't seem to be a noticeable difference

njee20

Woah woah woah, which are standard? DT plain gauge are heavy. ACI DB would be better. It's actually a good price for Revolutions, for a race wheelset that's what I'd get. You're unlikely to save that sort of weight for £18 without trying elsewhere.

Chunkers1980

^^ This. As I wrote but he got there first.

drlodge

Revolutions (2-1.5-2) are fine for the front, but not the rear, for the rear use Competitions (2-1.8-2).

Chunkers1980

That's a bit sweeping - Jon may weigh 50kg and ride really lightly - in which case they'd be fine - may even be going 36h - who actually knows.

njee20

They are fine for the rear. They're not the strongest, but they're fine for a race wheel, in fact I'd have no qualms regardless of intended use. As I said previously, I've used them for about 4 years now with no ill effects. YMMV

Spesh used to spec Revolutions all round on the first of the 150mm burly Enduros.

jon1993

I weigh 73kg and I want to make sure it is a basically bullet proof wheel and can handle the sort of riding I want to do e.g. Dalby black but obviously want to make it as light as possible so knowing that what is my best option?

supersonic

The aci db spokes.

njee20

Seems reasonable.