Hubs on Chinese carbon wheels

kim10

Looking to buy a set of 50mm Carbon Clincher wheels but I cannot afford the factory builds like Reynolds, Mavic or Shimano, so I’m going to take a punt on the cheaper Chinese options on Ebay.
I have noticed that a lot of them now use “super light” or Powerway hubs and not Novatec which seemed to be the standard a little while back.
Has anybody got any experience with these new hubs or are they as good/bad as the Novatech?

Also any recommendation on reputable and reliable supplier?

ugo.santalucia

I do of course disapprove of your choice... however,

Most of these hubs are in fact rebadged Bitex hubs. You can easily recognise them by the 6 pawls freehub body. The same freehub system is used by Strada and Wheelsmith in their own branded hubs, although it is debateable whether the shells are made by Bitex or not.
Many hubs "manufacturers" only make shells or nothing at all and then use Novatec or Bitex internals... for instance a Powertap freehub is a Novatec type B1.
While it is easy to source replacement freehubs for Novatec, it is less so for Bitex... I would not know where to get them (I've got one... 8) ) and Strada might only cater for their own customers

kim10

Thank you very much for the advise Ugo, very useful as always.

I know the debate about the deep carbon clinchers (Chinese or not!) but have never owned a pair and have a couple of light weight shallow rim wheels so didn't want another. Around where I live its mostly flat and undulating roads so will be used for fast summer rides and a few TT's on my standard road bike.

The jury is still out whether to go for it or not

ugo.santalucia

If you buy them to try carbon rims, then try them, but if you buy them for the look, then don't bother... all these Chinese wheels I have seen look like something you got at Primark

martinperry

Ive just ordered a set of these on Novatec hubs
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151256899509? ... 1423.l2649
As ugo says, its more a case of scratcing an itch - I have no Idea how a set of carbons will feel, and £300 is a lot less than the £1K plus level I would be looking at from a "brand" to find out.
Will report back once they arrive (assuming they dont self combust or collapse, killing me in some horrible way!!)

ugo.santalucia

have you ever asked yourself why Planet X don't sell carbon clinchers?
I have and there is only one conclusion... they've done their maths and come to the conclusion that the risk is not worth it... meaning you only need one bad accident to damage the reputation of the brand.
With tubulars you can blame bad taping, bad gluing, but with clinchers who are you going to blame if your wheel bursts down a fast descent? Bad tyre fitting? Too high pressure? Or hide behind a finger, like some do blaming bad braking technique, which is ridiculous... as if you had to take braking lessons to ride your bicycle... :shock: Planet X cannot do that, they would lose too much business, as their average customer is not a PRO.
Given they can't sell wheels with a "no descending!" sticker on them, they prefer to play it safe and at their price point they cannot sell safer rims, so you get the alloy + carbon fairing.

drlodge

ugo.santalucia wrote:

have you ever asked yourself why Planet X don't sell carbon clinchers?
I have and there is only one conclusion... they've done their maths and come to the conclusion that the risk is not worth it... meaning you only need one bad accident to damage the reputation of the brand.
With tubulars you can blame bad taping, bad gluing, but with clinchers who are you going to blame if your wheel bursts down a fast descent? Bad tyre fitting? Too high pressure? Or hide behind a finger, like some do blaming bad braking technique, which is ridiculous... as if you had to take braking lessons to ride your bicycle... :shock: Planet X cannot do that, they would lose too much business, as their average customer is not a PRO.
Given they can't sell wheels with a "no descending!" sticker on them, they prefer to play it safe and at their price point they cannot sell safer rims, so you get the alloy + carbon fairing.

I was asking this question to myself last night! A young (school kid) in my club asks me if I know of cheap carbon rims, to go with his new bike and of course being a teenager, he has no money. I could see some carbon tubular rims (the rears are all sold out) but no clinchers. I came to the conclusion, he's going to have to spend around £500 for a set of carbon wheels - there is just no cheaper (and safe) way of doing it.

Glad I got my rims when I did :P

racingcondor

Ugo, I'm shocked that you forgot 'wring inner tubes' (Michelin latex tubes for example where the glue holding the overlapped section can apparently fail if repeatedly exposed to really high temperatures etc). I wouldn't be surprised though if they've done the cost/benefit on getting insurance for them and opted out.

OP - I think you can safely assume the reason these wheels aren't using Novatech is becuase it would add a few £ and or g (or I suppose so they can advertise them as 'our own special hubs') and not because the other hubs are better. Bitex are OK hubs as long as the 'manufacturer' hasn't cheaped out on the bearings too much (and then you can replace them with decent bearings). As a rule though if they're not one of the main Novatech or Bitex models I'd avoid them.

petemadoc

I think it's a very good point, why don't planet x sell carbon clinchers. These guys aren't daft, they know there is a massive demand for full carbon clinchers but they don't sell them.

Saying that though I'm sure in the UK they'd be fine, we don't have long descents with multiple hairpins that are likely to blow your tyre. It only takes one person to take them on an alpine sportive though.

ugo.santalucia

PeteMadoc wrote:

Saying that though I'm sure in the UK they'd be fine, we don't have long descents with multiple hairpins that are likely to blow your tyre.

No, but there are fairly steep ones that are long enough... I'm thinking north Devon, Wales, Cumbria... you name it

petemadoc

ugo.santalucia wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

Saying that though I'm sure in the UK they'd be fine, we don't have long descents with multiple hairpins that are likely to blow your tyre.

No, but there are fairly steep ones that are long enough... I'm thinking north Devon, Wales, Cumbria... you name it

Yeah, I live in Wales. It's very rare to drag on the brakes for any length of time, I mean how long are we talking to make them heat up enough to cause a problem.

ugo.santalucia

PeteMadoc wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

Saying that though I'm sure in the UK they'd be fine, we don't have long descents with multiple hairpins that are likely to blow your tyre.

No, but there are fairly steep ones that are long enough... I'm thinking north Devon, Wales, Cumbria... you name it

Yeah, I live in Wales. It's very rare to drag on the brakes for any length of time, I mean how long are we talking to make them heat up enough to cause a problem.

When I went down Porlock I never released the brakes... I kept them on-off constantly... if you release them for more than 5 seconds you pick up too much speed to be able to slow down again, given the road is fairly slippery. I did stop once in the middle to let the discs cool down.
Descends like that are not at all uncommon here... bad tarmac, damp surface, poor visibility, narrow road... you just can't let the bike go.
Heat buildup is very fast... more so for heavier riders

twgh

ugo.santalucia wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

Saying that though I'm sure in the UK they'd be fine, we don't have long descents with multiple hairpins that are likely to blow your tyre.

No, but there are fairly steep ones that are long enough... I'm thinking north Devon, Wales, Cumbria... you name it

Yeah, I live in Wales. It's very rare to drag on the brakes for any length of time, I mean how long are we talking to make them heat up enough to cause a problem.

When I went down Porlock I never released the brakes... I kept them on-off constantly... if you release them for more than 5 seconds you pick up too much speed to be able to slow down again, given the road is fairly slippery. I did stop once in the middle to let the discs cool down.
Descends like that are not at all uncommon here... bad tarmac, damp surface, poor visibility, narrow road... you just can't let the bike go.
Heat buildup is very fast... more so for heavier riders

Could not agree more with this. Most people who are in the market for £300 carbon clinchers (myself included (or at least I was until I saw the error of my ways)) won't be the best descenders and will likely use the breaks rather heavily on descents and will probably be heavier than 70-75kgs and therefore putting a lot of stress on the brakes / brake surface.

I have now decided that if I ever get deep section carbon wheels I would go for tubbies at the bottom end of the range and only clinchers if they were from a good and reputable manufacturer who has spent lots of money on the R&D needed to produce a safe pair.

I may be wrong but that is where I sit.

cycleclinic

Even expensive carbon wheels have gone a bit wobbly and had tyres blow off on decents. There are many factors that effect rim failure and some chinese rims will be better than others - the rim is one factor but there are others rider weight road conditions (that will determine how much you use the brakes) e.t.c. In general one rim failure senario is different enough to another to make a direct comparison to find the cause difficult. In reality the cause is no one thing it is a combination of factors, tyres blow of alloy rims under hard braking (not often but it can and does happen).

The problem with ebay sellers is you do not know who the original factory is. All I know I am quite happy with the rims I got from china but will I take them on long decents - no as there are none in suffolk, norfolk or essex which is where I ride.

However given disc brakes are coming in the next year in a big way (I think and hope) this is all moot, as then everyone can have carbon clinchers with no issues.

petemadoc

thecycleclinic wrote:

.

However given disc brakes are coming in the next year in a big way (I think and hope) this is all moot, as then everyone can have carbon clinchers with no issues.

I was going to mention this too. Shimano seem to be ready with their disc options and this will make rim failure a non issue. Once they let the pro peloton use discs it will be a real game changer.

cycleclinic

It could be in the next 6 months. I mean look at Shimano's new STI offering RS685. It uses SLX caliper though rather than the XT 785 which is a shame but SRAM's offering will be out again in April and Campagnolo do have something in development. I suspect a Autumn release. I think races next year will be on bike with disc brakes.

Us mountian bikers have known for a long time it is the way to go well I mean stop. My wife's 40th birthday present is a road bike equipped with the R785 shifters/calipers and carbon rims - why not know. She is going to have a higher tech bike than any of mine.

ugo.santalucia

Any chance of hydraulic STI with mechanical gears for a reasonable price?

marcusjb

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Any chance of hydraulic STI with mechanical gears for a reasonable price?

Well. As it happens.

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/arti ... ing-40535/

I don't know whether the price will be reasonable though.

term1te

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Any chance of hydraulic STI with mechanical gears for a reasonable price?

Depends what a reasonable price is. The hydraulic kit mentioned here looks very interesting. http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/03/31/shimanos-all-new-11-speed-105-5800-group-plus-new-mechanical-hydraulic-road-disc-brakes/ Although I guess it is not only new groupset, but new hubs, frame and fork if you want to run disk brakes?

ugo.santalucia

Bah... I probably won't fit them anyway... there has been enough scaremongery about boiling fluids to put me off for a while, until I am 100% convinced it won't happen to me.
Problem is they run these tests on descends which are not really steep, not really twisty and not really scary... 7 miles at 8% on one of these American highways... you don't need to brake.