Should I upgrade wheels?

kasattack

Hi everyone,

I've been riding my Boardman Road Comp since June 2013 and after researching the best things to upgrade on a road bike I've been looking at a Campagnolo Zonda wheelset (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-zonda-clincher-wheelset/) to upgrade the Mavic CXP22 rim wheels that came as stock with the bike.

According to a spec list online the Road Comp's front wheel weighs 1184g and the rear 1754g and the Campagnolo Zonda set weighs 1550g altogether.

Do you think this is a worthwhile upgrade or would it be better value for money to upgrade something else such as the tyres?

Thanks in advance

chippyk

I've got Zondas on my Bianchi, can't fault them, certainly a huge leap over the stock wheels.

kasattack

ChippyK wrote:

I've got Zondas on my Bianchi, can't fault them, certainly a huge leap over the stock wheels.

That's great to hear, thanks. In terms of performance how much of a difference did you notice? I normally average between 17 and 19, sometimes 20mph depending on the length of the ride and the weather conditions - any idea whether the Zondas would increase my average speed by any amount?

bikemanspen

Where have you been riding? Any hills? They are quite fast averages in my eyes also what sort of distances? Better lighter wheels will help but you need to be more specific!

kasattack

bikemanspen wrote:

Where have you been riding? Any hills? They are quite fast averages in my eyes also what sort of distances? Better lighter wheels will help but you need to be more specific!

Over rides of about 40 miles I average around 17mph with around 1600ft elevation gain according to strava and over short quick rides I average just under 20mph over 12 miles for example and 18 to 18.5mph over rides more like 20-23 miles long.

Also I enter a few sportives per year that are around 60 miles long.

There's around 1000ft of elevation gain per 25 miles depending on the specific ride I do and there tends to be rolling hills quite low gradients and a few short but much steeper ones.

Does this help?

nawty

How heavy are you? Are you big and powerful or a racing whippet?

Have you considered hand built wheels? they can be tailored to your exact requirements and are often cheaper than off the peg wheels.

kasattack

nawty wrote:

How heavy are you? Are you big and powerful or a racing whippet?

Have you considered hand built wheels? they can be tailored to your exact requirements and are often cheaper than off the peg wheels.

I'm pretty slim at 157lbs and 6ft 3. I haven't considered hand built ones - regardless of whether they're hand built or not could you say whether there would be a tangible benefit to upgrading?

nawty

In a word. Yes. Wheels are really the first thing to upgrade and make much more of a difference than shaving 500g of your bike by light weighting various components.

I intentionally have heavy tyres on my commuter so when I come to the weekend things are much quicker. I don't really notice any difference per se it's just that I am quicker on the lighter wheels - as the saying goes, it doesn't get easier, you just get quicker.

In fact my good wheels aren't that much lighter on the scales but the rims and tyres are nice and light so there is quite a difference in terms of spinning up to speed, accelerating and climbing.

If the weights you've quoted are correct your current wheels seem massively heavy so even an upgrade to some low level Shimanos/Mavics would make quite a difference, the Zondas should make a great upgrade and you're nice and light so they should be robust enough.

I would recommend looking for some handbuilts though, or at least spending an hour or so researching them so you know the pros and cons.

FatTed

No I don't think you "should"
but if you want more bling or to spend money why not
hand built would be a more interesting upgrade.

kasattack

Ok thanks for all of the replies - I'll definitely look into hand built wheels before spending out on the Campagnolos!

bisoner

One of the most noticeable 'upgrades' I've ever made was going from a set of Conti Ultra Sport tyres to some Michelin Pro Race 3 tyres.

Zondas + Pro Race 4's + light inner tubes (or even latex) would be a very nice upgrade package without paying silly money.

Handmade's always an option.

Note, I'm currently running Zonda's + Gatorskins. I'll put on some PR4's or Veloflex tyres once I'm feeling brave again!!

ai_1

Lighter wheels will help you with acceleration and should make climbing a little easier. I don't see any reason they'll make a difference to your speed on the flats unless they're aero wheels. If your current tyres are sluggish you might gain a little speed with easier rolling ones. You can also save significant weight with a tyre change depending on what you're starting with. If you're starting with slow rolling, tough, heavy tyres, I'd make them the first thing to change. If you've already got decent tyres then look at wheels but don't expect miracles! You probably won't notice a significant performance improvement.

drlodge

All of the above advice is good:
- The Zondas are probably the one factory wheelset I might consider buying, they're at a decent price point (not rip off, stupid money) and reviews seem good.
- Otherwise I always go handbuilt. For £300 you can get a good set of wheels that ride well and are easy to repair (not that they'll fail). I've got Record hubs, Excellight rims and sapim/race spokes but at your weight and use, you might want a deeper rim and fewer spokes but still a stiff build.
- tyres and inner tubes are a simple upgrade. Currently running Michelin Pro4 Service Course with Conti supersonic inner tubes.

londoncommuter

Depends....

Will you get the wheels now, still have the urge to upgrade and end up getting a new bike in six months?

nathancom

I would suggest handbuilt over factory any time. The stiffness of a well built wheel is worth the money.

kasattack

drlodge wrote:

All of the above advice is good:
- The Zondas are probably the one factory wheelset I might consider buying, they're at a decent price point (not rip off, stupid money) and reviews seem good.
- Otherwise I always go handbuilt. For £300 you can get a good set of wheels that ride well and are easy to repair (not that they'll fail). I've got Record hubs, Excellight rims and sapim/race spokes but at your weight and use, you might want a deeper rim and fewer spokes but still a stiff build.

Anywhere you can recommend for hand built wheels? Also, what would be of more benefit - a more expensive hub or a deeper rim?

wannabecyclist

I brought these wheels last month, so far brilliant. Only concern is not sure how easy it is to get spare spokes if any break so may be should have gone for hand built but don't ride enough for it to really matter.

cycleclinic

OP you are not comparing like with like with your weights. The weight you quote of your boradmand wheels is with skewers, tubes, cassette, rim tape and tyres. The weight of the zonda wheels is just bare wheels which is how they should be quoted so you can directly compare. You can change tyres e.t.c you see. Weights of those indivually would help also.

So do not expect a 1.5kg drop in wheel weight buy buying the zonda as that won't happen. Also handbuilts are a good option but I am biased.

Seeing as you are light you should be able to use a low spoke count wheelset and have them be relaible, this means factory or handbuilt are equally viable. The ability to repair a set of shop built wheels sways it for me (it not spoke breakage that is the issues it is rim damage I have done that before).

ugo.santalucia

Don't upgrade, upsize!

drlodge

Hey Paolo, you using your old frilly pants to hide those Archetype rims again...

Slo Mo Jones

nawty wrote:

How heavy are you? Are you big and powerful or a racing whippet?

Have you considered hand built wheels? they can be tailored to your exact requirements and are often cheaper than off the peg wheels.

Surely most people don't have requirements that require tailoring?

I often hear people recommending handbuilts on this basis. But say I need new wheels - on what basis do I pick components? How does the recreational cyclist know what hubs, rims and spokes are best for them?

If it's by talking to a wheel builder, what sort of criteria would the wheel builder use?

littledove44

Slo Mo Jones wrote:

nawty wrote:

How heavy are you? Are you big and powerful or a racing whippet?

Have you considered hand built wheels? they can be tailored to your exact requirements and are often cheaper than off the peg wheels.

Surely most people don't have requirements that require tailoring?

I often hear people recommending handbuilts on this basis. But say I need new wheels - on what basis do I pick components? How does the recreational cyclist know what hubs, rims and spokes are best for them?

If it's by talking to a wheel builder, what sort of criteria would the wheel builder use?

Good questions. I look forward to seeing the answers.

drlodge

Its not just about customising the wheels, although that is a benefit
- you have an experienced wheel builder that will ask the right questions in order to choose the best combination of components that will work together and fit your needs. No second guessing.
- the wheels will be built by hand, not machine, and be built better
- the wheels will be easy to maintain; spokes are likely going to be regular J-spokes and easy to find/replace at most outlets. Compare that with proprietary straight pull spokes. They will (should) use brass nipples, not aluminium ones that will save you all of 30g but weld themselves to the spokes and relegate the wheels to the bin should they need tweaking. Rims can be replaced, keeping the original hubs.

Overall, hand builts are a much more valuable proposition in the long run. Just my opinion of course.

Slo Mo Jones

drlodge wrote:

Its not just about customising the wheels, although that is a benefit
- you have an experienced wheel builder that will ask the right questions in order to choose the best combination of components that will work together and fit your needs. No second guessing.
- the wheels will be built by hand, not machine, and be built better
- the wheels will be easy to maintain; spokes are likely going to be regular J-spokes and easy to find/replace at most outlets. Compare that with proprietary straight pull spokes. They will (should) use brass nipples, not aluminium ones that will save you all of 30g but weld themselves to the spokes and relegate the wheels to the bin should they need tweaking. Rims can be replaced, keeping the original hubs.

Overall, hand builts are a much more valuable proposition in the long run. Just my opinion of course.

Your first point really means I'm trusting the wheel builder to pick for me. I'm trusting that the combination he chooses is better than the combination used on a "factory" wheelset. And again, what is the criteria he will use? I'm interested because I can see the attraction in having a set of wheels that are not just off the shelf. If it's hilly vs flat riding, most will do a mixture of flat and hilly rides and use the same wheels. Are the roads you ride generally in good condition or are you encountering a lot of rough surfaces? Erm, it's mixed. Do you want lightweight vs durable? Well, I want a good balance between the two...

What do you mean by "built better"? How can you be sure that a wheel built by hand will be of better quality? Are factory wheels actually built by machine? They will be tested in a similar manner to a handbuilt wheel.

I'm all over your third point. But related to that, how often do people lose a spoke? I've not lost one in the 16 months or so I've been riding. To a once a week (50-80 miles) recreational cyclist and sometime cycling commuter, is this something that you'd expect once a year, once every 5 years? Genuine question.

ugo.santalucia

Slo Mo Jones wrote:

I'm all over your third point. But related to that, how often do people lose a spoke? I've not lost one in the 16 months or so I've been riding. To a once a week (50-80 miles) recreational cyclist and sometime cycling commuter, is this something that you'd expect once a year, once every 5 years? Genuine question.

That's a good question... I have owned three sets of wheels in my days which were "factory wheels", although only one was built by a machine (and it turned out the better one)

1) Mavic Aksium Race... about 10 years ago... they were wooden but good, I managed to get to the end of the rear rim problem free in 2-3 years and then I binned them. I have noticed the newer ones are nowehere near the same quality... they are even cheaper than they were 10 years ago!!! :shock:
2) DT Swiss 1450 Mon Chasseral... about 8 years ago... a monkey worth of wheels and the very reason I started to build wheels... I broke two spokes within 400 miles of buying them... the second was particularly annoying as I was half the way to meet with friends for a 100 miler, which I had to give up... ended up riding with a couple of spare spokes in my rear pocket for a month or so... decided it was ridiculous and I rebuilt them without knowing much of what I was doing... they never broke a spoke for the following 4 years that I kept them
3) A set of Alex rims on Shimano hubs that came with my Croix de Fer... nothing spectacular... terrible hubs and wooden rims, but did OK for a while, then I broke a spoke after a couple of years... they were J spokes and easy to replace... I then binned them as the cup/cone bearings were in a state