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Why are BB30 so censored ?!

drplumbsterdrplumbster Posts: 83
edited April 2014 in Workshop
Ok so I have a BB30 on my CAAD10 I love the frame but literally loath this terrible BB SYSTEM!!

What do folk think to the following:

1) buy expensive ceramic bearings and keep going with it

2) buy cheap bearings and accept that you will need to change them every 500kms or so

3) give up and buy one of these conversion kits (FSA ABOUT £15) to make the BB30 into a standard BB that will take external cups like shimano etc


I'm swaying towards option 3

What have others done?

Posts

  • rowlersrowlers Posts: 1,614
    I don't think I'd go for the metal sleeve approach - it looks permanent!
    Go for a KCNC/Praxis etc... converter, I might do just the same!
  • brettjmccbrettjmcc Posts: 1,361
    Seriously think there is something wrong to be looked at, I have over 3000 miles on my cheap, as you put it, normal steel bearings on my synapse and they are still going. No issue on my Vision trimax either. I also have Shimano on my other bike in case you say anything.

    Can you explain what is happening? Why is it so bad?
    BMC GF01
    Quintana Roo Cd01
    Project High End Hack
    Cannondale Synapse SL (gone)
    I like Carbon
  • HamishDHamishD Posts: 538
    If I had to change bearings every 500k I'd be doing it every six weeks... there must be something wrong as yer man says above. Is it an FSA BB? I've heard horror stories about those...
  • Hi there,
    I sympathise with you. However, I had a terrible BB30 on my synapse and after removing it and cleaning it after numerous creaks, it now runs fine.
    I took the advice of some one else off Bikeradar who had been having the same problem. I removed the BB, cleaned it, added far more lubricant that I would normally use, fitted it back and torqued it properly and no problems for the last 6 months.
  • xscreamsukxscreamsuk Posts: 318
    hmmm, 2 bikes with BB30, changed bearings a couple of times in one, use this one thru winter done about 20K miles on that, TT bike I changed then at start of the year just because I could. It's my main turbo bike so have done many hours. I have no problem at all with BB30.
  • I presume it's an FSA? It's whatever came with the bike, it has FSA chainset so maybe.

    To clarify I've done about 4000km on the bike I just think it's a censored system compared to standard external shimano set ups that I've used since they came out about 7 -8 years ago.
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,496
    I presume it's an FSA? It's whatever came with the bike, it has FSA chainset so maybe.

    To clarify I've done about 4000km on the bike I just think it's a censored system compared to standard external shimano set ups that I've used since they came out about 7 -8 years ago.

    Are YOU the bikes mechanic? If you are, how much have you messed with the BB? Sorry if I sound like I'm leaning toward operator error, but......
  • bernithebikerbernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    Don't bother with ceramic for the BB, you're only doing 90rpm ish.

    You can get BB30 SKF* bearings on the internet for about £20 a pair, probably amongst the highest quality/tolerances out there.

    £120 for ceramic bearings that don't last a season is ridiculous…

    *One of, it not THE biggest bearing makers in the world.
  • brettjmccbrettjmcc Posts: 1,361
    £58 for Cannondale ceramics. £16 for the normal FSA ones at Qwerty.

    Like Bernie says though, look at the bearing and just Google the bearing model number...

    As for others, I can confirm it took me a couple of goes to get it right on the bearing installation, but it's all been good.
    BMC GF01
    Quintana Roo Cd01
    Project High End Hack
    Cannondale Synapse SL (gone)
    I like Carbon
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    In response to the original question, it's down to sloppy manufacturing tolerances of the frame and bearings - BB30 was never designed for high volume production - Cannondale bought Magic Motorcycle and foisted it on an unsuspecting buying public. Remedies include decent bearings and Loctite bearing fit to hold the bearings more securely.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Monty Dog wrote:
    In response to the original question, it's down to sloppy manufacturing tolerances of the frame and bearings - BB30 was never designed for high volume production - Cannondale bought Magic Motorcycle and foisted it on an unsuspecting buying public. Remedies include decent bearings and Loctite bearing fit to hold the bearings more securely.

    Thanks for the reply, I have since put in some new bearings greased them up massively and things seem ok for now, but I'm just not convinced that the system is a good one.......
  • curiumcurium Posts: 815
    I agree that it is likely down to frame manufacturers not being able to meet the required tolerances. I know some people who have had zero problems with BB30 but hear more complaints about this system than any other which is dissappointing as I am considering purchasing a 2014 synapse alu disc.

    To balance things out, my Hollowtech 2 BB started making an irritating click under hard pedalling after a year of use but was solved by fitting a new Hollowtech 2 BB which was cheap and easy to fit. My old square-taper BB was bullet-proof in comparison but a year of use is acceptable for me given the cheap price of a replacement and the ease of fitting.
  • rowlersrowlers Posts: 1,614
    Still playing about with mine to get it to a state that I'm happy with.
    Done about 40 miles on it, no creaking etc... but I can feel play when I pull/push the arms by hand. If I increase the pre-load the play goes, but the cranks tighten up too much....
    Hmm, I've emailed Saddleback (felt distrubutor) to see what they recommend. I know they run Dura-Ace with the wheels manf' adapters, but I'll see what they come back with...
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,027
    rowlers wrote:
    Still playing about with mine to get it to a state that I'm happy with.
    Done about 40 miles on it, no creaking etc... but I can feel play when I pull/push the arms by hand. If I increase the pre-load the play goes, but the cranks tighten up too much....
    Hmm, I've emailed Saddleback (felt distrubutor) to see what they recommend. I know they run Dura-Ace with the wheels manf' adapters, but I'll see what they come back with...

    There is something amiss here.... the cranks should NOT tighten up. you need to read the instructions very closely.. you may have a spacer too many or indeed a spacer too few.
    If you are new to this game, then get it into the shop.
  • rowlersrowlers Posts: 1,614
    No not new to this game....
    If you tighten the pre-load on a std HTII bottom bracket, it will bind the bearings eventually (too much pre-load). But any play disappears well before the the cranks bind, so no problem.
    Its the FSA Reducer/BB30 business thats the issue...
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,027
    You have me confused.. are you running a FSA mtb crankset with a preload? Road cranksets dont have a preload... unless I am very much mistaken.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,689
    BB30 like all other press fit systems is flawed. It relies on the tolerances of a part which cannot be machined because it's made of a material that does not tolerate machining. Therefore the fit will always be inferior to that you would get in a system with precision machined cups or an enclosed cartridge.
    You can be lucky and get a few miles of out it or you can be unlucky and have nothing but troubles. Essentially someone like I.K. Brunel would have discarded the idea as "bollox", but 200 years later we got accustomed to censored stuff and we tolerate bad tolerances, apparently.
  • rowlersrowlers Posts: 1,614
    jgsi wrote:
    You have me confused.. are you running a FSA mtb crankset with a preload? Road cranksets dont have a preload... unless I am very much mistaken.
    Its not my thread - just contributing....
    I've got a Felt F1 with Ultegra 6800. Using the FSA BB30 BB & 24mm reducer cups that were supplied with the frame.
    All I'm saying is I'm not happy with this arrangement - its just "not 100%".

    I like the simplicity of it, but I agree Ugo, I cannot see how they can be 100% accurate in every instance.
    I'll eventually get a Praxis etc... I think!
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,027
    Think I get it... using the cups against the bearings is something I'd probably reckon as a poor solution.
    Could you not do away with the BB30 with a Praxis conversion?
  • rowlersrowlers Posts: 1,614
    edited April 2014
    jgsi wrote:
    Think I get it... using the cups against the bearings is something I'd probably reckon as a poor solution.
    Could you not do away with the BB30 with a Praxis conversion?
    Yeah, thats them. As I say not 100% happy with them, but loads use them without issues...
    So, awaiting reply from Saddleback before I decide which way to go...
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,027
    Well , I have one in my parts box ready to use . come the day if I start to get probs with BB30 on mine, I would have no hesitation.
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,496
    BB30 like all other press fit systems is flawed. It relies on the tolerances of a part which cannot be machined because it's made of a material that does not tolerate machining. Therefore the fit will always be inferior to that you would get in a system with precision machined cups or an enclosed cartridge.
    You can be lucky and get a few miles of out it or you can be unlucky and have nothing but troubles. Essentially someone like I.K. Brunel would have discarded the idea as "bollox", but 200 years later we got accustomed to censored stuff and we tolerate bad tolerances, apparently.

    What about using bearing shim material for fits that are not quite "there"? It can be a hassle but will give you that really snug fit you're looking for.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,689
    dennisn wrote:
    What about using bearing shim material for fits that are not quite "there"? It can be a hassle but will give you that really snug fit you're looking for.

    What about buying a frame with threads? If people stop buying them, they will stop selling them
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,496
    dennisn wrote:
    What about using bearing shim material for fits that are not quite "there"? It can be a hassle but will give you that really snug fit you're looking for.

    What about buying a frame with threads? If people stop buying them, they will stop selling them

    I'm not putting down threaded frames. Got one myself. Never an issue with it. I think that all these new BB sizes and types are not any better than outboard bearings and have been invented to simply sell new frames.
  • rowlersrowlers Posts: 1,614
    BB started squeaking last night, so I'm going to bite the bullet and got a "proper" BB30 Adapter.
    So anyone got any experience of the Wheels Mnf Delrin cups, the Rotor adapter, KCNC and Praxis?
    Any one better or significantly worse than the others? I've seen some others too - TriPeak and Token - both look similar to the KCNC...
  • MccariaMccaria Posts: 869
    I have 2 bikes with Praxis. One OSBB and one PF30. Have had no problems. Not the lightest solution, but so far definitely fit and forget.
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