Ti, One bike for all year?
jamie4759
Posts: 117
Morning all. Thinking about bikes as one often does, I thought about the prospect of selling off my winter and summer bikes and buying one bike for all year use. A bike for club rides, rides out on my own and general riding. I would keep my steel fixed gear bike for really bad weather and commuting, but the idea of a high end Ti bike for everything (except really bad weather and commuting) seriously appeals. What views do people have about this? I think a Moots or similar type bike would be great. Any downsides about just having the one bike????? I don't race, so as nice as it is to use a carbon bike on fast club rides, I think a Ti bike would be equally as good. Let me know what you think. Also, has anyone out there ridden of bought a Moots, or IF bike? Are they worth the money?
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I have no experience with Ti myself, but I am thinking along similar lines. I'm now thinking about building up a Ti XC bike that can serve as a jack of all trades commuter, light tourer and 'winter' bike. Oh, and do a few 'cross races too
I really like the idea of having a frame that will last a lifetime even with some abuse thrown in.0 -
I have Ti and Carbon, if you could only have one then I would go Ti, but you can't beat Carbon for it's weight and stiffness. You need two anyway end of story.
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you always need more then one bike...that said when i was looking i did want a ti frame that could fit full mudguards on. in the end that didn't happen but ti is fab for all round use.enigma esprit
cannondale caad8 tiagra 20120 -
Yes I have a Yukon which has eyelets for full gaurds. The thing is with Ti bikes is buy a second hand one and when you come to sell in however many years time, you will get roughly the same amount of cash back, that won't be happening with the Carbon one.0
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banditvic wrote:Yes I have a Yukon which has eyelets for full gaurds. The thing is with Ti bikes is buy a second hand one and when you come to sell in however many years time, you will get roughly the same amount of cash back, that won't be happening with the Carbon one.
Which, if true, is only an advantage if you ever wanted to sell it.Faster than a tent.......0 -
banditvic wrote:Yes I have a Yukon which has eyelets for full gaurds. The thing is with Ti bikes is buy a second hand one and when you come to sell in however many years time, you will get roughly the same amount of cash back, that won't be happening with the Carbon one.
Really? Why do you think Ti bikes are immune to depreciation? After all you will have paid less than new price for the used one in the first place, wouldn't you? Granted eventually everything reaches a lowest value, but it tends to be old and decrepit by then.0 -
Just going by the last 5 ti bikes I have previously sold. Never had the same with alloy or Carbon.0
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I don really understand this argument about titanium being a frame for life. Some one posted on here recently pictures of cracks in his titanium frame. If you have a bad crash and bend or seriously dent a titanium tube then the frame is scrap. Dont get me wrong, Id like a titanium framed bike myself one day, but I just dont get this frame for life statement.0
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They make high end sports cars out of carbon fibre (and titanium) - what would stop you using CF all year round? The bits, if any, that will suffer are common to both bikes.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0
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They make high end sports cars out of carbon fibre (and titanium) - what would stop you using CF all year round? The bits, if any, that will suffer are common to both bikes
Totally agree with you It's just that there's very few Carbon frames with eyelets ( if you want it for a winter build).0 -
banditvic wrote:
Totally agree with you It's just that there's very few Carbon frames with eyelets ( if you want it for a winter build).They make high end sports cars out of carbon fibre (and titanium) - what would stop you using CF all year round? The bits, if any, that will suffer are common to both bikes
Yes - that's fair. I have the Volagi Liscio - CF, Di2, disk brakes and full mudguard eyelets - awesome bike - super comfortable and quick with it.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
You really don't need eyelets for full mudguards.
I have an old Dolan alu frame (race), with no eyes but I use SKS Raceblade Longs which offer pretty much same protection as a "full", guard. They're really very good, and you can whip them orf in seconds if you wish to and to aid cleaning.0 -
xdoc wrote:I don really understand this argument about titanium being a frame for life. Some one posted on here recently pictures of cracks in his titanium frame. If you have a bad crash and bend or seriously dent a titanium tube then the frame is scrap. Dont get me wrong, Id like a titanium framed bike myself one day, but I just dont get this frame for life statement.
Most Ti frames come with at least a 10 year guarantee, some for life.0 -
Joelsim wrote:xdoc wrote:I don really understand this argument about titanium being a frame for life. Some one posted on here recently pictures of cracks in his titanium frame. If you have a bad crash and bend or seriously dent a titanium tube then the frame is scrap. Dont get me wrong, Id like a titanium framed bike myself one day, but I just dont get this frame for life statement.
Most Ti frames come with at least a 10 year guarantee, some for life.
It's not so much to do with this, it's to do with the titanium frame holding it's properties over time. Aluminium and steel bikes die over time in comparison at much faster rates. Also, titanium doesn't rust. A mixture of all these things is where the soundbites come from.
Some of us have a winter bike because we want mudguards, and equally loads of us want something we don't want to have to give a monkey's about. For those with a high-end road bike that they want to look after, we don't want to cover the drivetrain of our better bikes with mud which acts like a grinding paste to accelerate drivetrain wear etc. It's easy to accept having one bike as long as you have no problem with that one bike being hammered through all the conditions the year has to offer. I wouldn't bother with two bikes if all I had was ultegra for instance as it's such good value for money and cheap and cheerful. What's cheap to one person is expensive to another though and to some Super Record EPS is a chuckaway purchase and nothing in cycling is expensive in the slightest.0 -
I'm currently awaiting my fifth Van Nicholas Zephyr (lifetime) warranty replacement frame having cracked the first four over 12 years. I would imagine that a Moots may be better quality but shelling out the £3K+ what a Moots costs I would want to be certain that it would last a lifetime and from personal experience I wouldn't assume titanium was the wonder material it is sometimes made out to be.
My experience of titanium is it can be a bit flexy as well but again that might not be the case with a Moots. However, I have read tests of several titanium frames and it seems to be a common observation about titanium frames so maybe the Moots is no different.
I have read about lots of failure stories from other titanium manufacturers like Lynskey as well. I would suggest searching forums for stories about any frame you are potentially buying especially the US ones.0 -
mfin wrote:Joelsim wrote:xdoc wrote:I don really understand this argument about titanium being a frame for life. Some one posted on here recently pictures of cracks in his titanium frame. If you have a bad crash and bend or seriously dent a titanium tube then the frame is scrap. Dont get me wrong, Id like a titanium framed bike myself one day, but I just dont get this frame for life statement.
Most Ti frames come with at least a 10 year guarantee, some for life.
It's not so much to do with this, it's to do with the titanium frame holding it's properties over time. Aluminium and steel bikes die over time in comparison at much faster rates. Also, titanium doesn't rust. A mixture of all these things is where the soundbites come from.
Some of us have a winter bike because we want mudguards, and equally loads of us want something we don't want to have to give a monkey's about. For those with a high-end road bike that they want to look after, we don't want to cover the drivetrain of our better bikes with mud which acts like a grinding paste to accelerate drivetrain wear etc. It's easy to accept having one bike as long as you have no problem with that one bike being hammered through all the conditions the year has to offer. I wouldn't bother with two bikes if all I had was ultegra for instance as it's such good value for money and cheap and cheerful. What's cheap to one person is expensive to another though and to some Super Record EPS is a chuckaway purchase and nothing in cycling is expensive in the slightest.
As I said in my previous post, titanium is not the wonder material it is made out to be by some. Yes, it doesn't rust but it can get scratched, any transfers will also tend to get scraped as well and it will get covered it crap like any other bike and look pretty much the same unless you clean it after every ride.
I would say any titanium frame may be marginally more resilient than any other material depending on how well you look after and treat your bike. I had a steel frame that was over 25 years old and was still going strong before I gave it to a relative and I didn't particularly pamper it. I'm sure there are much older steel frames that have seen many tens of thousands of miles that are still giving sterling service.
If it were my money and I were looking for a long-term buy I would probably go for one of the more exotic steel frames now coming out or forget about a "bike for life" and drop a grand on a decent carbon frame every five years say.0 -
Joelsim wrote:Most Ti frames come with at least a 10 year guarantee, some for life.
Thing is, when a titanium frame breaks, usually at the welds (and this seems to be pretty common) those 'guarantees' often don't seem to be the paper they are written on, even if the frame was a top of range one. Just do a search on here and elsewhere on the web!"an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.0 -
Ti frames are great, but you need to do your research to make sure that you get the right one for you. Most of the points above are down to the design and manufacture of the frame, not the properties of the metal.
Yes, Ti frames can be flexy, but that's dependant on the tubing used. My Esprit is stiff but lively; there's seems to be a 'spring in its step' but at the same time it's very stiff. They do absorb vibration very well, don't confuse this with flex.
Yes, Ti frames have been known to crack. But this is usually at the welds, this is due to over heating the weld. When I bought mine, I did my research and spent a lot of time looking at frames in detail. I came across loads of Ti frames where you could see the tube walls 'dip' in the last mm to the weld. This is a thinning of the wall due to over heating and it can weaken the weld.
I suspect the reputation reputation for failure wasn't helped by Merlin cycles (the frame makers, not the shop) some years ago, as they suffered a huge number of failures.
Yes, Ti can scratch, but that's simply down to the finish that you choose. Ti is a very hard and abrasive metal, so is more resistant to scratching than most, but the finish you choose will help or hinder this.
A polished finish will show small scratched more than a brushed or bead blasted finish. Mine is bead blasted with polished chain stays, the polished section is now showing a number of minute scratches which are only visible on very close inspection. The bead blasted section is completely scratch free. Despite the polishing, there are no scratched due to chain slap.
A benefit of a brushed finish is that if you do scratch it you can refinish that area with a Brillo pad.
A bare Ti finish is certainly more scratch resistant than lacquered carbon !
I see no reason why a Ti bike shouldn't be used year round. Mine isn't though. This isn't down to the frame, it's down to the components. My Ti bike is my best bike, and as such I've put some expensive components on it. I don't really want to subject these to the grinding paste that winter roads throw up. I have no doubt that the frame would be fine.
There are loads of Ti frames with eyelets, so don't worry about that.
My Esprit weighs 7.6kg, and as mentioned is very stiff, so don't worry about the comments about buying carbon to get a light, stiff bike. That said, you can buy a light stiff carbon frame for a fraction of the cost, chances are that you will also lose some of the more desirable properties of carbon as the price drops though; stiff carbon can equate to a dead feeling frame.
Anyway, you need more than one bike, so just buy another and buy it in Ti.Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved0 -
Bought a Litespeed Ghisallo years ago. It was a lovely bike, but it didn't last long before I traded it for a Scott. Foolish decision on my part really, as it was used for racing and was way too noodley. I got fed-up of hearing the chain scrape against the front mech every time I got out of the saddle.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90240867@N03/13507058223/0 -
Pippi Langsamer wrote:Bought a Litespeed Ghisallo years ago. It was a lovely bike, but it didn't last long before I traded it for a Scott. Foolish decision on my part really, as it was used for racing and was way too noodley. I got fed-up of hearing the chain scrape against the front mech every time I got out of the saddle.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90240867@N03/13507058223/
Down to design, not material properties. Mine doesn't do that (but that could be lack of power ) Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved0 -
MattC59 wrote:Pippi Langsamer wrote:Bought a Litespeed Ghisallo years ago. It was a lovely bike, but it didn't last long before I traded it for a Scott. Foolish decision on my part really, as it was used for racing and was way too noodley. I got fed-up of hearing the chain scrape against the front mech every time I got out of the saddle.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90240867@N03/13507058223/
Down to design, not material properties. Mine doesn't do that (but that could be lack of power )
You're probably right- it was marketed as one of the lightest frames available at the time. One of those Heart-over-Head moments I guess....0 -
Funny how different people like different frames I had a Ghisallo and it was probably my favourite ride out of all the Titanium bikes I've had.0
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banditvic wrote:Funny how different people like different frames I had a Ghisallo and it was probably my favourite ride out of all the Titanium bikes I've had.
Did you race on it though?
I can imagine as a Sportive or general ride it would be nice...0 -
No never raced, but just enjoyed it's light weight and handling. Was running Easton Slx Forks and Eason SLX wheels think it was about 14 1/2 Lbs. Still regret selling it.0
