What's wrong with Campag....?

lostboysaint

giant man wrote:

Father Faff wrote:

Some people say avoid Campag groupsets. Why is that? I have only ever used Shimano up to now but am looking at bikes that come with Campag Chorus rather than Shimano Ultegra 11-speed.

Campagnolo make the finest cycle groupsets in the world. Period. Nothing more to be said. Don't try and compare to Shimano or the very inferior Sram efforts, because there's no point. Neither one comes close.

That.

drlodge

ChippyK wrote:

To be fair I have Sora on my winter bike

And the difference between Sora with its thumb shifters and Campag Super Record is...? :shock:

jordan_217

ChippyK wrote:

Think of Campag as a Ferrari 458, classy, beautiful and Italian. Shimano is a Nissan GT-R. Bloody brilliant but no knicker elastic snapper. In the same way you've got to admire Dura Ace Di2 for its brilliance, it's never going to melt your heart like a Super Record 80th anniversary groupset. Continuing the motoring analogy, Campag Xenon is a Ferrari 412.

To be fair I have Sora on my winter bike and I like it, it does a job and apart from a snapped chain hasn't needed any fettling since new. Prefer the thumb shift for a smaller cog on Campag though, love the feeling and sound as it drops down a few cogs.

Didn't realise Jeremy Clarkson frequented BR

g00se

drlodge wrote:

ChippyK wrote:

To be fair I have Sora on my winter bike

And the difference between Sora with its thumb shifters and Campag Super Record is...? :shock:

You can reach the campag thumb shifters from the drops!
(And they jump up to 5 cogs at a time).

drlodge

g00se wrote:

drlodge wrote:

ChippyK wrote:

To be fair I have Sora on my winter bike

And the difference between Sora with its thumb shifters and Campag Super Record is...? :shock:

You can reach the campag thumb shifters from the drops!
(And they jump up to 5 cogs at a time).

Indeed I know ;-) I actually had Sora on one bike and Super Record on the other until recenly when Sora got replaced with Veloce

balthazar

hypster wrote:

On the other hand you could say it makes no sense at all. If you perceive a benefit in terms of quality and weight using Record then why downgrade the groupset by mixing Chorus components in? It makes sense to select a Chorus groupset over Record because you perceive little benefit for the extra cost but mixing and matching just because you can is not really justified if you really think Record is better. I can understand why people do though.

For me, it's because some components you buy once, and others wear out. I would never pay Record prices for sprockets and chains, because that cost is borne regularly. The main bearings, however - hubs, headset, BB - I'll spend more for Record sealing and fine quality in the hope they last forever (with maintenance!). The rest is decorative, as far as I can tell- I chose a Record chainset over Centaur because it looked great - I'm a sucker for the 4-arm crank spider design (pre-2006) - and was fairly cheap, not for any functional reason.

Mechs all look and work alike, and shifters are apparently much the same internally, so I'd just choose the cheapest ones that have nice shiny silver levers (not easy these days).

Bozman

ChippyK wrote:

Think of Campag as a Ferrari 458, classy, beautiful and Italian. Shimano is a Nissan GT-R. Bloody brilliant but no knicker elastic snapper. In the same way you've got to admire Dura Ace Di2 for its brilliance, it's never going to melt your heart like a Super Record 80th anniversary groupset. Continuing the motoring analogy, Campag Xenon is a Ferrari 412.

To be fair I have Sora on my winter bike and I like it, it does a job and apart from a snapped chain hasn't needed any fettling since new. Prefer the thumb shift for a smaller cog on Campag though, love the feeling and sound as it drops down a few cogs.

Yeah but that Ferrari needs a service and a new clutch every few thousand miles while the Nissan is pretty much indestructible, Italians put style before substance.

hypster

balthazar wrote:

hypster wrote:

On the other hand you could say it makes no sense at all. If you perceive a benefit in terms of quality and weight using Record then why downgrade the groupset by mixing Chorus components in? It makes sense to select a Chorus groupset over Record because you perceive little benefit for the extra cost but mixing and matching just because you can is not really justified if you really think Record is better. I can understand why people do though.

For me, it's because some components you buy once, and others wear out. I would never pay Record prices for sprockets and chains, because that cost is borne regularly. The main bearings, however - hubs, headset, BB - I'll spend more for Record sealing and fine quality in the hope they last forever (with maintenance!). The rest is decorative, as far as I can tell- I chose a Record chainset over Centaur because it looked great - I'm a sucker for the 4-arm crank spider design (pre-2006) - and was fairly cheap, not for any functional reason.

Mechs all look and work alike, and shifters are apparently much the same internally, so I'd just choose the cheapest ones that have nice shiny silver levers (not easy these days).

I tend to take a slightly different approach. As a professed Shimano man I prefer to buy Ultegra over Dura Ace because I can afford to replace it twice as often as the DA groupset. I transfer the groupset from my Summer bike to my training bike and get a new Ultegra groupset for the Summer bike.

That way I'm riding components with less total miles on them and I think a new Ultegra groupset will be better than a half-worn DA one that I have to make last longer.

StillGoing

giant man wrote:

Father Faff wrote:

Some people say avoid Campag groupsets. Why is that? I have only ever used Shimano up to now but am looking at bikes that come with Campag Chorus rather than Shimano Ultegra 11-speed.

Campagnolo make the finest cycle groupsets in the world. Period. Nothing more to be said. Don't try and compare to Shimano or the very inferior Sram efforts, because there's no point. Neither one comes close.

:roll:

Nothing wrong with Campagnolo. Equally, there is nothing wrong with Shimano or SRAM, just the biased blinkeredness of individuals that has absolutely no foundation.

northpole

I bleated on about this on another recent thread - may as well have banged my head against a brick wall!

It's all about what you prefer. Campag and Shimano make great gear (I haven't tried SRAM and suspect they are also fine - could be wrong!). The ergo levers operate from a different logic platform. You either prefer the thumb operated upshift of the Campy or the twist action of the brake lever of the Shimano from a practical point of view.

I would also add that I find Shimano a bit white goods-ish. What I mean by that is that they work perfectly efficiently but with little feedback (as you would expect from say a Toyota car) whereas Campy requires a bit more physical grunt for each downshift but provides much more mechanical feedback. No idea what happens with the electronic versions!

Functionally they are both great. I happen to prefer Campy ergos but equally I have been happy to run my commuting bike with Shimano since 2006/2007 to date.

Peter

Joeblack

giant man wrote:

Father Faff wrote:

Some people say avoid Campag groupsets. Why is that? I have only ever used Shimano up to now but am looking at bikes that come with Campag Chorus rather than Shimano Ultegra 11-speed.

Campagnolo make the finest cycle groupsets in the world. Period. Nothing more to be said. Don't try and compare to Shimano or the very inferior Sram efforts, because there's no point. Neither one comes close.

I'm interested in why you feel SRAM are inferior to Shimano?

To the op iv only ever ridden Shimano so can't compare ride quality or build but I will agree that Campy do pip the competition on looks all day!!

dennisn

NapoleonD wrote:

Who says that?

"Some people", apparently? :?

Father Faff

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Father Faff wrote:

Some people say avoid Campag groupsets. Why is that? I have only ever used Shimano up to now but am looking at bikes that come with Campag Chorus rather than Shimano Ultegra 11-speed.

I read you've been on this forum for 8 years... which means for 8 years you've been involved in road cycling, at least...
Now, this is a question I would expect from someone who bought hid first bike last week... unless of course you are deliberately trying to throw in a can of worms to have a bit of a laugh...

Did you ever think I might be a mountain biker who has recently moved to road cycling....?

Yellow Peril

Q. What's wrong with Campag...?

A. You can't go fishing with it.

hypster

Joeblack wrote:

giant man wrote:

Father Faff wrote:

Some people say avoid Campag groupsets. Why is that? I have only ever used Shimano up to now but am looking at bikes that come with Campag Chorus rather than Shimano Ultegra 11-speed.

Campagnolo make the finest cycle groupsets in the world. Period. Nothing more to be said. Don't try and compare to Shimano or the very inferior Sram efforts, because there's no point. Neither one comes close.

I'm interested in why you feel SRAM are inferior to Shimano?

To the op iv only ever ridden Shimano so can't compare ride quality or build but I will agree that Campy do pip the competition on looks all day!!

I haven't paid attention to the looks of Campag gear for many years so following this thread I went on to their website. I looked at the Chorus groupset first expecting some nice polished alloy and all I found was plastic crap!

I wouldn't have that rubbish on my bike if you gave it to me and how is that going enhance the look of your classic Italian steel frame which everyone keeps banging on about? Don't even get me started on the exorbitant costs of Record and SR either. I'd sooner have the Athena groupset than any of those above, that does look nice.

rolf_f

hypster wrote:

Joeblack wrote:

giant man wrote:

Father Faff wrote:

Some people say avoid Campag groupsets. Why is that? I have only ever used Shimano up to now but am looking at bikes that come with Campag Chorus rather than Shimano Ultegra 11-speed.

Campagnolo make the finest cycle groupsets in the world. Period. Nothing more to be said. Don't try and compare to Shimano or the very inferior Sram efforts, because there's no point. Neither one comes close.

I'm interested in why you feel SRAM are inferior to Shimano?

To the op iv only ever ridden Shimano so can't compare ride quality or build but I will agree that Campy do pip the competition on looks all day!!

I haven't paid attention to the looks of Campag gear for many years so following this thread I went on to their website. I looked at the Chorus groupset first expecting some nice polished alloy and all I found was plastic crap!

I wouldn't have that rubbish on my bike if you gave it to me and how is that going enhance the look of your classic Italian steel frame which everyone keeps banging on about? Don't even get me started on the exorbitant costs of Record and SR either. I'd sooner have the Athena groupset than any of those above, that does look nice.

I give this trolling.........
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4 out of 10.

passout

Alex222 wrote:

Velocast did a podcast a while ago comparing and commenting on the main groupsets, which I found interesting

http://velocastcc.squarespace.com/tech5 ... -1-of.html

Thanks - that was good & pretty much answers the initial question.

In summary campag form Chorus up is great with Chorus been best value. Lower end campag stuff including the new aethena is not such great value (but pretty??). For Shimano Sora to Ultegra are fine & all good value (DA if a pro) and SRAM is also now very good indeed- especially Rival or Apex Hi Fi if you want low gears.

Personally I'll stick to my SRAM rival.

StillGoing

passout wrote:

Alex222 wrote:

Velocast did a podcast a while ago comparing and commenting on the main groupsets, which I found interesting

http://velocastcc.squarespace.com/tech5 ... -1-of.html

Thanks - that was good & pretty much answers the initial question.

In summary campag form Chorus up is great with Chorus been best value. Lower end campag stuff including the new aethena is not such great value (but pretty??). For Shimano Sora to Ultegra are fine & all good value (DA if a pro) and SRAM is also now very good indeed- especially Rival or Apex Hi Fi if you want low gears.

Personally I'll stick to my SRAM rival.

SRAM do Wi-Fli in all their group sets. I use a Wi-Fli Force RD on my main bike just in case I ever need to stick a cassette on with a 28 or bigger sprocket. But I agree that there isn't a bad manufacturer in the three main manufacturers of Campagnolo, Shimano and SRAM and anyone who claims one is inferior to the others is talking shite. Something that comes down to mere personal preference is not an endorsement as to the capabilities or lack of them of a particular manufacturer.

passout

^^^ Yes, I've seen the rival wi fi (upgrade) kits but I was thinking more when you buy a bike or even a groupset - then you see wi fi more frequently associated with apex. That's my experience anyway. They do actually refer to the wi fi upgrade kits that in the podcast by the way. I agree with them that wi fi is a real plus point for sram and one which has Shimano has responded to. I think you are right the 3 big names are all producing decent kits and I think its great they have slightly different approaches - more choice for us. If my budget was higher I probably would give chorus a go.

BenderRodriguez

For me, Campagnolo trumps other companies, especially Sram, in one important area: they have stayed loyal to their tradition of European manufacturing and their employees, having their upper range stuff still made in Italy by people who are paid honest wages (€40,000 a year plus).

For me this is a big reason to choose Campagnolo over those design / marketing companies who have adopted the 'American' business model, having all their stuff made in low-wage economies such as China and spending more on marketing than actually having the stuff made, then having the chutzpah to charge as much for the goods they sell as those made by more traditional companies such as Campagnolo.

Bicycling magazine had an good article on this issue a while ago:

http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured- ... talian-job

thiscocks

Yellow Peril wrote:

Q. What's wrong with Campag...?

A. You can't go fishing with it.

But you can open a wine bottle with it

Joeblack

What would be great is if one of these manufacturers did wireless electronic shifting... #justsaying

bianchimoon

Joeblack wrote:

What would be great is if one of these manufacturers did wireless electronic shifting... #justsaying

It won't be long, just as soon as they have squeezed the margins out of the wired shifting, it'll be the new must have accessory, then auto shifting.. then?...

dennisn

Joeblack wrote:

What would be great is if one of these manufacturers did wireless electronic shifting... #justsaying

Why? You would have batteries everywhere. Sounds like a real hassle to me. The chances of outside interference are way higher. Each component would need it's own computer and sending and receiving units. All to save a few small pieces of wire? :roll:

Joeblack

8)

dennisn wrote:

Joeblack wrote:

What would be great is if one of these manufacturers did wireless electronic shifting... #justsaying

Why? You would have batteries everywhere. Sounds like a real hassle to me. The chances of outside interference are way higher. Each component would need it's own computer and sending and receiving units. All to save a few small pieces of wire? :roll:

But surely that's like saying why have electronic shifts at all? Just to save pushing the lever a bit further :roll:

dennisn

Joeblack wrote:

8)

dennisn wrote:

Joeblack wrote:

What would be great is if one of these manufacturers did wireless electronic shifting... #justsaying

Why? You would have batteries everywhere. Sounds like a real hassle to me. The chances of outside interference are way higher. Each component would need it's own computer and sending and receiving units. All to save a few small pieces of wire? :roll:

But surely that's like saying why have electronic shifts at all? Just to save pushing the lever a bit further :roll:

I would say for the ease of it all. Touch a button and bingo shifted. Plus think of the advantages, when the price comes down, for the people who don't know really know how to shift.

Wireless offers nothing over wired, at least to me. Other than more batteries, more things to go wrong, etc. I'm hard pressed to think of any advantage wireless might have.

Pat Murray

Father Faff wrote:

Some people say avoid Campag groupsets. Why is that? I have only ever used Shimano up to now but am looking at bikes that come with Campag Chorus rather than Shimano Ultegra 11-speed.

They obviously think you are not worthy of it.

Pedro77

I have limited experience but I owned a Shimano 105 equipped Giant TCR a few years back and now I am using a Wilier with campagnolo groupset.

Any of the big three will do its job perfectly. It comes down to personal preference and what you feel most comfortable.

For me I could not fault the Shimano components but always felt they where bland... Some said here felt like white goods and I think for me is actually how they feel... With no soul or passion put into it. I suppose this is irrelevant for most but not for me. The same if you buy a car, any modern car will be reliable but some people like toyota, others prefer something more special.

I moved to campagnolo as I was curious what it was all the fuss about. To be honest, it did not make me faster, or more reliable but somehow I just prefer the way it shifts and how everything is serviceable. A misconception is that anything Campagnolo is terribly expensive, from my experience, it isn't. The only difference is that their group sets probably start at the shimano 105 range and do not produce the equivalent of Sora or Tiagra group sets. Like for like there isn't much in terms of money between campagnolo and shimano. I think I also like the way they stuck to their manufacturing in Europe, shows some courage and in many ways I feel that the cheap labour brands are ripping me off with larger profit margins.

In summary, all equally good, use the one you prefer really. For me campagnolo it is, at least for now, maybe one day they will go bust and cannot compete in the multimillion world economy that Shimano and SRAM might be more suited to take advantage of...

Pedro

navrig2

I suspect that for many people their first bike determines which camp they belong. In my case I had an early 1990s Saracen MTB with Shiman gearing. It was bombproof and outlived the time I had the bike - I gave it away as spares when I ought by GT MTB, again with Shimano.

When I moved to road cycling I barely gave Campag a 2nd thought. A friend (with lots of cylcing experience) advised at the time that people had the view Shimano wore out and Campag wore in. He used Campag and Shimano.

I've now worked my way up from Tiagra through 105 and now Ultegra and haven't considered Compag at each change.

Compag do not have a strategy which will ever change the above because:

1. They don't do MTB stuff so people changing from MTB to Road or CX or Hybrid bikes will be used to Shimano.

2. They don't do very low end components meaning people moving from bikes with sub 2300 quality stuff will be used to Shimano.

thegreatdivide

Campagnolo is the breakaway riders group set of choice.