Avid Brakes - No/little contact

Gibbo3771

Hi,

I have a pair of Avid Elixr 1's on my bike, I had it out for 3 rides in a row without washing it and decided to strip it down, however due to time constraints I rushed it and forgot to put the pads back on...before pulling on both brakes right into the bars.

I could not get the pistols to retract, so I adjusted the "Pad Contact" bit, now they don't contact at all and when I released the screw every so slightly, pumped a few times then retightened, it leaked a little fluid.

Any ideas what I can do? Prefer not to bleed as both brakes worked fine before I derped.

UPDATE: With some excessive pumping of the front brake and messing around, I seem to have almost returned it to it's former glory. Do I just need to get some air into the system?....

JodyP

Gibbo3771 wrote:

Do I just need to get some air into the system?....

The last thing you want in a hydraulic brake line is air. I am no expert but you may need to re bleed the system especially if you have lost some fluid.

cooldad

No, more likely the pumping just reset the pistons. If they aren't squidgy, just leave them alone.

Gibbo3771

cooldad wrote:

No, more likely the pumping just reset the pistons. If they aren't squidgy, just leave them alone.

Well the back one leaked a fair bit more fluid than the front tbh, it barely contacts at all. It comes all the way to the handle bars before making the slightest contact.

Will I need to bleed?

Chunkers1980

3 rides and you take out the pads. madness. Should only come out for changing and possibly inspection a bit further down the line.

In answer to do they need bleeding. Stick them back togther and see how they feel and report back.

Gibbo3771

Chunkers1980 wrote:

3 rides and you take out the pads. madness. Should only come out for changing and possibly inspection a bit further down the line.

In answer to do they need bleeding. Stick them back togther and see how they feel and report back.

No no the brakes are about 7-8 months old, I was cleaning the frame and didn't want any soap on the pads just incase so removed them temporary lol.

I have the bike rebuilt besides the chain back on, I can pull the rear brake all the way to the handle bar and only create a little bit of friction.

If I pump it 3-4 times I can get it to full contact with about an inch between the lever and the grip, once I let go ofc it resets back to before.

The fluid that leaked out, must have been a teaspoon, if not less. The front one had literally 1 drip.

Edit: The brake pads are literally 1mm away from the rotor on each side, well one side might be slightly more. When I pull the lever they do not budge, only if I continuously pump. I guess there is not enough fluid in the tube.

Cqc

Yep they need bleeding. Of they pump up it means the air bubbles are getting moved about. A bleed well sort it out but first inspect the houses top see where they are leading from and replace if necessary

raldat

Sorry to hijack thread but I have a related problem. Avid Elixr 1 that are 12 months old. Replaced pads today. They had about 0.5mm pad material left and worked fine with good lever action. Full lever pressure was achieved about 1 cm from the bars which I liked.

I put new pads in by using a screwdriver to push the old pads outwards and reset the pistons then replaced the pads with new avid ones. Now with the lever against the bar I can still slightly turn the wheel and need to pump the lever to achieve pressure. I assume I need to bleed them and have ordered a kit to do so. I have bled shimano ones so am confident to do it.

But, I am really wondering why this occurred. I cannot see any evidence of leakage. Anyone got any ideas on this? Look forward to comments.

WindyG

raldat wrote:

Sorry to hijack thread but I have a related problem. Avid Elixr 1 that are 12 months old. Replaced pads today. They had about 0.5mm pad material left and worked fine with good lever action. Full lever pressure was achieved about 1 cm from the bars which I liked.

I put new pads in by using a screwdriver to push the old pads outwards and reset the pistons then replaced the pads with new avid ones. Now with the lever against the bar I can still slightly turn the wheel and need to pump the lever to achieve pressure. I assume I need to bleed them and have ordered a kit to do so. I have bled shimano ones so am confident to do it.

But, I am really wondering why this occurred. I cannot see any evidence of leakage. Anyone got any ideas on this? Look forward to comments.

You don't need to bleed them you just need to advance the pads. Remove the wheel pull the lever so the pads have about a 1mm gap then ease the pads back a little so you can refit the wheel the pads will then be set correctly.

cooldad

There should be a sticky - 99.874589784541% of brake problems are caused by random unnecessary bleeding.

Why would they need bleeding after changing pads if they worked fine before? How would they have filled with air?
Think about it then go and reset the pistons and bed the pads in.

Gibbo3771

I've had a good look over it and nothing seems to be different from usual, the only difference is they have less fluid in them.

It would be a waste of money to pay a shop to bleed them, most places charge £25 per brake, i'll just buy replacements...they cost £30 off chain reaction.

Either that or i'll just ditch this bike and get a new one, had it for 4 years and really it has sort of done its time.

Chunkers1980

Kit and fluid can be had for 10~20 quid, bit drastic what you're suggesting, and wasteful

raldat

cooldad wrote:

There should be a sticky - 99.874589784541% of brake problems are caused by random unnecessary bleeding.

Why would they need bleeding after changing pads if they worked fine before? How would they have filled with air?
Think about it then go and reset the pistons and bed the pads in.

I might well shorten the hose as it is a little too long so will possibly bleed them anyhow, but that is a seperate issue.

On the one above, I hear what you are saying Cooldad, but I am curious as to what is happening here and wonder if you could expand on your thoughts. My logic may well be flawed but I took out worn pads with little material and replaced them with new pads with more material. I pushed the pistons right back and the discs slipped in normally with what looked like normal gaps either side. I made sure they were visually centered. Unless air entered the system somehow I can't see how I could now need to pump the lever to get lever pressure. This is not a brake force issue as the lever goes right to the bar on first pull. On second or third pull it gives good pressure and adequate brake force.

Anyhow, if you have the time and inclination, I wold love to hear why you think resetting the pistons will make a difference. I am not debating you, I am just curious to hear your thoughts.

The Rookie

Avid Elixir 1 fronts could be had from Planet X for £17 the other day.....

If fluid came out it needs to be refilled, that is the same process as bleeding.

Resetting the pistons makes a difference as if the pads are sitting too far off the disc then you use all the lever travel getting them to contact the disc and have no further lever pull to exert a clamping force on the disc, simples.

JodyP

raldat wrote:

Unless air entered the system somehow I can't see how I could now need to pump the lever to get lever pressure. This is not a brake force issue as the lever goes right to the bar on first pull. On second or third pull it gives good pressure and adequate brake force.

The same reason you would pump the brakes of a car after having put new pads in. There is no air in the system but the pistons are too far back to make contact, hence why you get full travel of the lever/pedal. The pistons come out and self adjust. Once they adjust you get the right amount of travel and a good feel on the lever.

raldat

JodyP wrote:

raldat wrote:

Unless air entered the system somehow I can't see how I could now need to pump the lever to get lever pressure. This is not a brake force issue as the lever goes right to the bar on first pull. On second or third pull it gives good pressure and adequate brake force.

The same reason you would pump the brakes of a car after having put new pads in. There is no air in the system but the pistons are too far back to make contact, hence why you get full travel of the lever/pedal. The pistons come out and self adjust. Once they adjust you get the right amount of travel and a good feel on the lever.

Thanks for the comment and I agree, but they are not self adjusting. Two pumps and I get good contact then let the lever go and I have to pump them again next time.

JodyP

raldat wrote:

then let the lever go and I have to pump them again next time.

You didn't mention that.

raldat

JodyP wrote:

raldat wrote:

then let the lever go and I have to pump them again next time.

You didn't mention that.

Yep, sorry. Was clear in my mind. Wish everyone was a mind reader, :?

The Rookie

Acids can over retract leaving you to pump them out each time, hence the advance the pads advice.

raldat

The Rookie wrote:

Acids can over retract leaving you to pump them out each time, hence the advance the pads advice.

Sorry if I am stupid but how does one advance the pads and get them to stay there?

raldat

raldat wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

Acids can over retract leaving you to pump them out each time, hence the advance the pads advice.

Sorry if I am stupid but how does one advance the pads and get them to stay there?

No need to answer, found it online and didnt work. Avid advice was if this didnt work next step was to bleed so that is what I am going to do. Thanks all...

WindyG

You didn't need to look online I had already told you how to do it! I still doubt they need bleeding unless you have done something to introduce air into them.

raldat

WindyG wrote:

You didn't need to look online I had already told you how to do it! I still doubt they need bleeding unless you have done something to introduce air into them.

Thanks, I overlooked your post, my mistake. Tried it again as per your comments and still did not work. I get them 1mm apartseperatemthem with the red avid spacer / bleed block, then reinstall the disc and the lever goes straight to the bar again.

Thanks for your help

The Rookie

Try reading the post in this thread which tells you!

raldat

Bleed kit arrived today. Bled brakes, air came out, they work perfectly now. How air got in simply changing pads NFI. Sorted. Happy...