Tubulars – rims and tyres

duckson

Currently have some DA9000 C24’s but fancy a change so started looking at tubulars as they are light at the rim and don’t have the problem clinchers have with braking heat….but lets not get into that here!
Not for race use just on my best bike for dry weather use, I weigh 70kg.

Had been looking at the Wheelsmith Race38 in tubular form but have also spotted these on ebay from a UK builder:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161144072071? ... 707wt_1161

Both are 38mm rims and 23mm wide, Wheelsmith are Gigantex and the above are Xpace.

Tyre wise I’ve done a lot of research (it seems) and I’m thinking of either Conti Competitions 25c or Veloflex Arenburg 25c, not sure 22mm would be the best idea on 23mm wide rims.
I may go glue in future depending on how I get on with tubs in general although the tape seems to have plenty of people (inc ex-pros) saying its great, no problems at all.
I’m probably going to get a Tufo tyre as a spare and use Tufo sealant or Stans as well as backup.

Questions…
Are Xpace a decent brand and has anyone dealt with this wheel builder before? (His ebay feedback looks good though).
Anyone using 22c’s on 23mm wide carbon tub rims?
Will either of these tyres tape ok with Tufo tape considering the rim is a little wider than in the past and the tyres are 25c?
Does the Veloflex need its basetape scraping (latex?) before applying either tape or glue?
I’ve read to leave a gap (1-2”) opposite the valve to aid removal when using tape especially, I assume this is safe? Was actually thinking of more like 10mm to get a plastic tyre lever in (Park tools) really.


Thanks all.

StillGoing

Don't know is the answer but the image looks just like one of the Far East build images? In fact their contact address is listed as Taiwan.

Planet X do 50mm carbon tubs for £500 that come in at around 1400g in 25mm width. I run 23mm Veloflex Extreme's on them and use them all year round.

duckson

Planet X are Shimano 10sp only, need 11sp.

Are the Extremes glued or taped? How are they for flats? Assume you are road riding year round...

racingcondor

I'd glue rather than tape. Like changing gear cables there is a learning curve to gluing cleanly but it's not that messy even the first time.

Don't worry about scraping the base tape, if the guys on weight weenies are right (and I'd bet they are) the coating that some scrape off is an anti-fungal. I was amazed by how well stuck my Vittoria's were when I flatted recently and they came off pretty cleanly.

sloppyschleckonds

The last puncture on a tub I had it never fully deflated, down to 1-2 bar, same with latex tubes on clinchers.
There are no dark arts where tubs are concerned, they don't need 10 layers of super glue to stick. You don't necessarily need to carry a spare on every ride. Changing them is a easy, and the ride will be noticeably different/ better.

Bare in mind those xpace wheels are probably the same as farsports etc but £200 more.

Monty Dog

XPace = XPace Industries who are an OEM maker of frames for the likes of Ribble, Planet-X and even DeRosa so have a pretty decent reputation. I guess it comes down to whether you want a warranty and UK support. Have no direct experience of the ebay seller, but it's hardly rocket science.

http://www.xpa-cycling.com/products.php ... .php&key=1

mamba80

this guy does a similar build, infact I,m certain its the same outfit, a friend has some and they ve been bullet proof in RR ing
http://www.spokesmanwheels.co.uk/

duckson

Thanks all.
I'm not afraid of gluing but just fancy the ease of tape, i'm interested to hear from anyone that has taped a Veloflex though.
I'm not sure on Conti or Veloflex, still not even sure of a 25c versus a 22c or a Veloflex Carbon 23c!

mamba80 wrote:

this guy does a similar build, infact I,m certain its the same outfit, a friend has some and they ve been bullet proof in RR ing
http://www.spokesmanwheels.co.uk/

Yes they are Xpace rims but built by this UK builder, he advertises on ebay as well as his own website.

cal_stewart

Glued first tub today. Centring is a bit of a pain and there is a bit of glue on the rim and tyre wall. Nothing a bit of solvent won't cure.

Think I did ok for a first time. 10min job

cycleclinic

23mm wide road tubular rims. I really don't see the point. There is no real advantage of having a wide tubular rim you do not get the tyre holding on any better and it does not spread out more. 21mm tubular rims are as wide as you need to go.

I have glued up conti and vittoria tubs and the conti one are the hardest as they don't stretch much. Mark Pollard at Spokeman is a pretty honest guy. I personally built with Gigantex tubular rims which I am sure are very similar in quality.

I get tubs of with my hands, rolling them back of the rim useually work but with mastik 1 glue it is normally hard work!

StillGoing

duckson wrote:

Planet X are Shimano 10sp only, need 11sp.

Are the Extremes glued or taped? How are they for flats? Assume you are road riding year round...

You can glue or tape them, but personally I glue them. Yes I ride them all year round and haven't experienced a flat. They aren't the cheapest tub out there by any means but they offer good grip and low rolling resistance.

duckson

Thanks for that, how much do you weigh?

Suppose i could go Arenburg 25mm rear and Carbon 23mm front for increased puncture protection but still a nice ride.
Also looking at the Conti Force 24mm / Attack 22mm tubs as i use them on my clinchers for Spring/Summer....

racingcondor

thecycleclinic makes a good point. The main reason for wide tubs is for really big tyres, this essentially means cyclocross.

I've seen a few threads about Velocity Major Toms and similar wide beds and the comments are often that you shouldn't use them for road as the bed is relatively wide and flat don't get such a good contact patch (the low pressuse in cross tubs works well though), the rims you're looking at may or may not suffer the same but on a wide bed I wouldn't put a narrow tyre on (i.e. stick to 24mm or 25mm).

duckson

Does a couple of mm make a massive different on the rim?
Alot of rims are now wide at 23mm and even wider at 25mm (i believe), is everyone with these running 25mm+ tubs?!

sungod

the other potential advantage of wide rims is improved aerodynamics...

after years of "skinny is best", it seems this was wrong and in fact wider can be better

whether of not a tub makes good contact is determined by the profile of the rim bed, not the rim width

to scrape or not to scrape veloflex...

unscraped - easy option, if/when you remove the tub, most of the latex will stay on the rim, it will turn into a squidgy mess when you apply a coat of glue to fit the next tub, this will squish out at the edges when mounted, if you need to fit a dry spare on the road it will not stick well to the layer of latex

scraped - tedious, the tyre will be much harder to remove, a dry spare will be much more secure as it's glue to glue

i've tried it both ways, overall definitely prefer scraped, but it's a really boring job, 15-20 minutes, feels much longer

don't confuse latex on the basetape with the layer used to seal the fabric sidewalls of some tyres

last week i struggled to pull a rather worn and flatted carbon off after months of bloody soaking rides, not even a hint of the basetape being affected by all the water, it was very clean

leaving a gap...

no, no, really no, just no, because, no, don't

if you don't scrape, it'll come off easily by hand

if scraped, a tough plastic tyre lever will get it started ok, a lezyne matrix lever is good for this, it won't gouge cf rims

either way, no need for a gap

duckson

Hmm yea the Veloflex sound like a ballache to be fair.

StillGoing

racingcondor wrote:

thecycleclinic makes a good point. The main reason for wide tubs is for really big tyres, this essentially means cyclocross.

I've seen a few threads about Velocity Major Toms and similar wide beds and the comments are often that you shouldn't use them for road as the bed is relatively wide and flat don't get such a good contact patch (the low pressuse in cross tubs works well though), the rims you're looking at may or may not suffer the same but on a wide bed I wouldn't put a narrow tyre on (i.e. stick to 24mm or 25mm).

Actually, a lot of riders including those in the pro peloton are moving to the 25mm rim. The wider width tyre gives improved comfort, better aerodynamics and no worse rolling resistance than a 23mm tyre and arguably better.

http://inrng.com/2013/04/reinventing-the-wheel-25mm/

Bikergroves

Sorry to dig up and old thread.

I've got some 38mm tubulars that are 23mm wide. Found it a bit of a struggle to find tyres that we're not tufo s33 and at a reasonable price.

Took the plunge on some Schwalbe One 28mms.

Are these going to be okay on my 28mm rims?

Couldn't find the answer anywhere online!

Cheers