Shimano 11 speed shifters with 10 speed mechs

earth

My RH 6700 shifter has had problems shifting up ever since I bought the ex team bike it came on. When I push the lever to shift up it swings through the whole stroke but does not shift. This is intermittent. I just have to push it again and it shifts but it's annoying. I have been told this is typical of a shifter that has been in a crash. I'm imagining there is a ratchet mechanism in there and a tooth has broken off a sprocket and the ratchet does not engage every time.

No doubt people will be asking that if it has been in a crash then is the frame safe? These are my thoughts on that. Yes I think the frame is sound. I say that because I saw the bike in a LBS some time before I bought it. It is a 2008 frame and at that time it had a Campagnolo Centaur groupset on it. I can only imagine it did not sell in that format because I saw it again later with Shimano 6700 on it and 6700 came out in 2009. So I believe the groupset was swapped and the shifter was a damaged one.

I've also been told Shimano STI levers are basically impossible to fix so I will just have to replace it. I have never really liked the boxy shape of the 6700 levers so I might take the opportunity to upgrade to 6800 or 9001 levers.

The question is will the 11 speed shifter be compatible with the 10 speed 6700 mechs?

earth

I think I have found the answer to this already. The 11 speed shifters pull less cable than the 10 speed ones and are not compatible with 10 speed mechs.

Mad_Malx

The problem with 11 speed isn't with the mechs, it's with the cassette.
Derailleurs don't know what speed they are.

If your wheel hub can take an 11 speed cassette (and most 10s can) then you can swap shifters and cassette and it'll work with 11 speed shifters.

But your original point - poor shifting - first check the indexing, then chain wear, then cassette wear.
If it's because of a crash then changing the hanger (£10-20) will probably sort it. Look from the back and see it the derailleur is hanging absolutely vertical.

Edit - and changing your shifters won't help if the hanger is bent.

DiscoBoy

Mad_Malx wrote:

Derailleurs don't know what speed they are.

I've been lead to believe that shimano 10 and 11 speed rear dérailleurs have different cable pull ratios, so they aren't interchangeable.

earth

Mad_Malx wrote:

The problem with 11 speed isn't with the mechs, it's with the cassette.
Derailleurs don't know what speed they are.

If your wheel hub can take an 11 speed cassette (and most 10s can) then you can swap shifters and cassette and it'll work with 11 speed shifters.

But your original point - poor shifting - first check the indexing, then chain wear, then cassette wear.
If it's because of a crash then changing the hanger (£10-20) will probably sort it. Look from the back and see it the derailleur is hanging absolutely vertical.

Edit - and changing your shifters won't help if the hanger is bent.

You could be right that the mech is compatible and it is the cassette which isn't. Firstly I read that the new shifters pull less cable. Secondly I think I read the new cassettes are almost the same width but they squeezed the sprockets closer together to fit in the 11th sprocket. So it seems to make sense that the shifters would pull less cable because the chain has to be moved a smaller distance to the next sprocket.


Sorry but I think the problem I have with shifting is due to the shifters and not the derailleur. I have changed cassettes and chain a few times due to wear and reindexed as well, but I will check the hanger is vertical. It will shift through each gear precisely but sometimes the upshift lever moves through the full stroke without any resistance or click that is has engaged anything. If I release it and try the upshift again then it works. It might work a second time but then the 3rd or 4th upshift fails and I have to try again.

Mad_Malx

DiscoBoy wrote:

Mad_Malx wrote:

Derailleurs don't know what speed they are.

I've been lead to believe that shimano 10 and 11 speed rear dérailleurs have different cable pull ratios, so they aren't interchangeable.

The deraileur does what it's told by the shifter - the 11 sp shifter pulls a bit less cable so the derailleur doesn't move as far.

Mad_Malx

earth wrote:

Sorry but I think the problem I have with shifting is due to the shifters and not the derailleur. I have changed cassettes and chain a few times due to wear and reindexed as well, but I will check the hanger is vertical. It will shift through each gear precisely but sometimes the upshift lever moves through the full stroke without any resistance or click that is has engaged anything. If I release it and try the upshift again then it works. It might work a second time but then the 3rd or 4th upshift fails and I have to try again.

Does sound like a problem with the shifter then - I was thinking derailleur crash damage rather than shifter.

Mad_Malx

NB - Shimano docs do indicated derailleurs are speeded. My understanding is this is not important, and Shimano obs want you to buy lots of new bits.
I haven't tried this upgrade.

dgunthor

11 speed mech and shifter need to work together as they have different cable pull.

it's the same with the MTB shimano groups - 10 speed not compatible with 9 speed (found this out as I bought a new 10 speed mech as *normally* mech speed does not matter, but the gears would in no way index due to different cable pull)

earth

I'm disappointed now because it's looking like I will have to buy a new shifter and it has to be a 6700 one and I don't even like them.

The other option is that I open my wallet and a big can of worms and change group set.

I could live with the new Ultegra but would really want Dura-Ace. That means dropping between 600 and 1000+ on kit just to fix a broken shifter and I will probably also have to change the freehub body on two sets of wheels so I can fit the 11 speed cassette. Then the problem is that the winter alloy wheels are a bit too old and there is no 11 speed freehub body for them. I guess I could have the rear one rebuilt with another hub but that's going a bit far. I could sell them but I like them.

Then I'm told the Dura-Ace 11 speed cassette has problems with the carbon sprocket carriers. And as much as I like the new Dura-Ace chainset, I fancy the Rotor chainset with Q rings. And to top if off I heard a rumor Rotor might have a full groupset on the way.