Help Please! XX revelation Dual position question.

supafly1982

I have a set of these on my blue pig, http://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/p/5807 ... -2012-sale

Now I normally just run them at 150mm on my pig and when I press the remote Xloc it stiffens it up for me. Now I just thought that it was a hydraulic lockout. I set my sag and rebound and left it like that for 2 years as ive used other bikes. I am now using the pig more and more and love it but feel 150mm it too high.
I have been thinking about stripping the fork down to drop it down to 130mm, but having done some research on this (and a possible black box motion control conversion) I have seen that it claims to be Dual Position. I know the forks are Dual Air but from reading adverts like this it appears that with the turn of a knob or flick of a switch you can run it at 130mm.

Ive fully opened up the + gate on the xloc and it stays at 150mm. with the button pushed in the travel is soft, with the button depressed and fully out the travel is firm, but still at 150mm travel although it feels like sag is reduced.

I fully turn the knob from + to - as far as it will go and try again. I have the lever/push button fully pressed in and travel is pretty firm. I depress the button and its as if it takes away the sag and again is pretty firm, almost locked out. I also noticed as I turned the gold Gate knob to the negative setting you can see the push lever retract its self, reducing the travel the lever has, but the forks always remain at 150mm.

Now from the way I read the blurb its as if you can set the forks at 130 and run them just like you would any other 130mm fork, but this does not seem to be the case. I will apologise in advance for being so think, I have a tendency to overthink things in order to learn every nook and cranny.

If anyone can enlighten me with a thorough explanation I would be most grateful.

cheers
scott

jimothy78

i think you're getting confused between "dual air" and "dual position".

"Dual Air" simply refers to forks (like the one in the link you posted) that have separate valves for the positive and negative air chambers ("springs") which lets you fine-tune the relative pressures, which effects the initial "break-away" part of the compression stroke.

"Dual position" denotes forks that have a two-position height setting for climbing/descending. If your forks have that function (the ones in your link DON'T), then there's a switch on the top of the non-drive-side of the crown (next to the positive air valve). It's entirely independent of the lockout and damping circuits, which are located in the drive-side leg of the fork.

So the forks in your link are "Dual Air" but NOT "Dual position". Mine are the opposite - they're "dual position, solo air" (having two height settings but only one valve - the positive and negative chambers are held at the same presure)

jimothy78

Further to the above, if you want to reduce the travel, then you will have to carry out an air spring service and fit the "all travel" spacers before reassembly, as shown on page 14 of the manual.

supafly1982

jimothy78 wrote:

i think you're getting confused between "dual air" and "dual position".

"Dual Air" simply refers to forks (like the one in the link you posted) that have separate valves for the positive and negative air chambers ("springs") which lets you fine-tune the relative pressures, which effects the initial "break-away" part of the compression stroke.

"Dual position" denotes forks that have a two-position height setting for climbing/descending. If your forks have that function (the ones in your link DON'T), then there's a switch on the top of the non-drive-side of the crown (next to the positive air valve). It's entirely independent of the lockout and damping circuits, which are located in the drive-side leg of the fork.

So the forks in your link are "Dual Air" but NOT "Dual position". Mine are the opposite - they're "dual position, solo air" (having two height settings but only one valve - the positive and negative chambers are held at the same presure)

Thanks for your input Jimothy but I actually spoke to a guy at leisure lakes online and he said the Dual Air is the same as Dual Position, so I hummed a little. Im definitely not confusing it with each other, im actually quite competent at building bikes and servicing forks, I am well aware about tuning my forks with the two different air chambers for various dampening effects, but read this on the blurb on the link I provided

". Upgrades for 2012 include the new Motion Control DNA system and Dual Position Air for easy uphill's" I was told the Xloc provides the different travel lengths on the forks 130-140-150, read what the blurb says and see if you can work it out. What I can tell you is mine have never been adjustable to my knowledge, they have always sat at150mm unless I run the negative chamber higher than the positive.

it goes on to say the adjustment can be done on the fly, suggesting its the xloc that controls the adjustment as on the fly you can not adjust both chambers with the pump

Ive made every adjustment possible but cant quite get to the effect they are talking about.

In my mind I was expecting something similar to the 2 step or fox Talas where you hit the lever and press the suspension down till it lock's off at the given ride height.

heres more
"What's more the Dual Position adjust allows you to choose between long and short travel options with a simple turn and click of the easy to use detented knob. With approximately 30mm of sag-to-sag travel adjustment, it is designed to simply bring the front of your bike down for climbing prowess. Dual Position Air is sweet and simple, smooth and robust. Bomb downhill with confidence. Click. Climb like a demon. But the cutting edge features don't stop there"

so this all just confuses the matter for me, there's not a lot of info out there for these forks hence why I was hoping someone has had experience with them here.

The Northern Monkey

Dual air and dual position are not the same, but your fork may have both.

Antm81

If they're dual position air you should have an adjuster around the base of the +ve air chamber to adjust the travel, which iirc you need to compress the fork then move the adjuster to operate it.

I've no experience of the slow remote however I'd expect that it connects to the drive side leg as the poploc and pushloc remotes do, therefore being unable to operate the travel adjust.

The Northern Monkey

Dual Air:
With independently adjustable positive and negative air spring chambers, Dual Air is race or trail ready, highly tunable, and one of the lightest air spring systems on the market.

XX Motion Control:
Lightweight and performance oriented, XX Motion Control includes the XLoc remote featuring hydraulic-actuated lockout and adjustable threshold control. Dual Flow rebound and factory-set compression damping make this a no-nonsense damping system with efficient small bump performance for XC and trail. Featured in: SID, Reba, Revelation.

Dual Position Air:
An easy-to-use detented knob offers long and short travel options with a turn and a click. With approximately 30mm of sag-to-sag travel adjustment, it is designed to simply bring the front of your bike down for climbing prowess. Dual Position Air is sweet and simple, smooth and robust. Bomb downhill with confidence. Click. Climb like a demon.

Note, suspension is stiffer when shortening travel using the Dual Position Air adjustment as it is to be used for climbing.

jimothy78

supafly1982 wrote:

Thanks for your input Jimothy but I actually spoke to a guy at leisure lakes online and he said the Dual Air is the same as Dual Position

He's wrong.

I was told the Xloc provides the different travel lengths on the forks 130-140-150...it goes on to say the adjustment can be done on the fly, suggesting its the xloc that controls the adjustment...

This also appears to be wrong - according to the SRAM technical information, the XLoc is simply a hydraulic lockout control.

It's the little dial/switch at the top of the Non-driveside leg that controls the dual position (IF your fork has it - some versions do, some don't), which lets you switch between the TWO settings (Full/Climbing). The 130/140/150 thing refers to the three different available options for the FULL travel, which appear to use different air springs, according to SRAMs spare parts catalogue.

In my mind I was expecting something similar to the 2 step or fox Talas where you hit the lever and press the suspension down till it lock's off at the given ride height.

that's right - you twist the knob, then compress the forks down to the lower setting.

I admit that I may have been wrong about the forks in the link not being dual position - looking closer it does appear to suggest that. However, this doesn't mean that ALL XX revs necessarily have that feature. Is that link for the actual set of forks you bought, or just one you found as an example?

supafly1982

Yup, Jimothy78 it seems the description does not paint a clear picture, either that or those who advertise the blurb have mingled the descriptions together making it confusing.

Northern Monkey, from the way you posted this makes it look more understandable, two separate damping designs not one. XX motion control just seems to soften the suspension to drop it more for climbing, would you say from what you posted this is accurate?

supafly1982

well I stripped the forks right down and overhauled them, I put in a 20mm spacer. It turns out that in all the XX revelation advertisements they have gave the descriptions of 2 types of revelations. Ive not come across dual position XX revs, so its either that or a very poorly described damping system.

When you hit the lockout lever they firm up. If you use the gate blow off you can run them softer, its definitely not on the fly as it requires you to turn and turn the control. All in all SRAM have put out a terrible description.

On the plus side I took the forks to bits and analysed all the components so it was good to learn the details, the forks are all nice and smooth and serviced, happy days