Is this bent?

neilo23
neilo23 Posts: 783
edited March 2014 in Workshop
Is this hanger bent? Can't for the life of me get the rear derailleur to stop skipping a couple of cogs. I do need a new chain which doesn't help. I'm reluctant to go to my LBS as they keep the bike for a couple of weeks if you need your tyres pumped up and seem terrified of anything with a Campagnolo logo on it. I can order a new hanger and do it myself (if it's actually bent). Can't find any photos of the hanger to compare it to a new one.

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Comments

  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Photo is too close / dark - need to see the alignment of the jockey wheel cage from behind to see if it is vertical. You could try using an adjustable spanner to 'ease' it slightly - remove rear mech and make sure wheel is fitted and QR is tight.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    Monty Dog wrote:
    Photo is too close / dark - need to see the alignment of the jockey wheel cage from behind to see if it is vertical. You could try using an adjustable spanner to 'ease' it slightly - remove rear mech and make sure wheel is fitted and QR is tight.

    I'll try and get a better pic up soon. The top jockey wheel seems to be in line, but the bottom one appears to be out of line.
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    image.jpg

    image.jpg
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    Looks ok. if its ok on the other gears then it's more likely you need a new cassette and chain. No good changing just one.

    Take your bike to another shop as well, they sound crap.
  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    Certainly looks bent and possibly has a slight twist too from the photos.

    Check this out http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/rear-derailleur-hanger-alignment


    Regards

    PP
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    Thanks chaps. I don't know how it could be bent as the bike hasn't had any knocks but I'll take it to the other shop. The only problem with that is that I don't drive and it's at the top of a 15km hill: I usually have to use the big sprockets for the last 2km and they're the ones the chain keeps slipping off :D
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    neilo23 wrote:
    Thanks chaps. I don't know how it could be bent as the bike hasn't had any knocks but I'll take it to the other shop. The only problem with that is that I don't drive and it's at the top of a 15km hill: I usually have to use the big sprockets for the last 2km and they're the ones the chain keeps slipping off :D

    Do you have another back wheel? If you remove the skewer you can thread it into the mech hanger and use it both to straighten the hanger, and to measure across to the fitted wheel to determine if it's parallel. That should get you close enough that you can have a shop finish it when convenient.
  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    rayjay wrote:
    Looks ok. if its ok on the other gears then it's more likely you need a new cassette and chain. No good changing just one.

    I'd have to disagree. If you change your chain before it starts to cause damage to the cassette teeth then you will get many more miles out of the cassette. The photo of yours certainly doesn't appear to show any misshapen cogs. For info, looking at the cassette side on, the 'troughs' between the teeth should appear as a 'u' shape. If the u has started to wear it will be elongated on one side of the u, looking like a combination of one side still a u, the other side a u. Does that make sense? :mrgreen:

    If you buy a cheap chain measuring device you can test your chain for stretch which is what causes this wear. Change your chain before you reach the wear limit and you will prolong cassette life. I tend to get a cassette to last for three chains by changing before excessive wear.

    If you fit a split link to your chain it is easy to remove and clean/ check for tight or twisted links periodically as well. They cost just a couple of quid and it is worth having one in your saddle pack along with a simple chain tool which can get you home if you snap/ twist a link.

    PP
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,567
    I got one of these from Rose bikes and straightened my hanger, works a treat.
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    image.jpg

    The cogs look ok, but I definitely need a new chain.

    Just a wee bit worried about bending the hanger myself...
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    balthazar wrote:
    neilo23 wrote:
    Thanks chaps. I don't know how it could be bent as the bike hasn't had any knocks but I'll take it to the other shop. The only problem with that is that I don't drive and it's at the top of a 15km hill: I usually have to use the big sprockets for the last 2km and they're the ones the chain keeps slipping off :D

    Do you have another back wheel? If you remove the skewer you can thread it into the mech hanger and use it both to straighten the hanger, and to measure across to the fitted wheel to determine if it's parallel. That should get you close enough that you can have a shop finish it when convenient.

    Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a go. If anything snaps off I'll sue you :lol:
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    neilo23 wrote:
    balthazar wrote:
    neilo23 wrote:
    Thanks chaps. I don't know how it could be bent as the bike hasn't had any knocks but I'll take it to the other shop. The only problem with that is that I don't drive and it's at the top of a 15km hill: I usually have to use the big sprockets for the last 2km and they're the ones the chain keeps slipping off :D

    Do you have another back wheel? If you remove the skewer you can thread it into the mech hanger and use it both to straighten the hanger, and to measure across to the fitted wheel to determine if it's parallel. That should get you close enough that you can have a shop finish it when convenient.

    Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a go. If anything snaps off I'll sue you :lol:

    I'll phone my lawyer forthwith..! (if I had a lawyer). (On a side note, if I ever get arrested, I'm determined to ask for my "brief", just 'cos it sounds cool.)

    Anyway. Be careful with any bending- in your first picture to looks like there could be a fatigue fracture- hairline crack- across the hanger, in the centre of this pic:

    Screen%20Shot%202014-03-17%20at%2014.37.23.png

    If so, you WILL break it. Could be a hair or dirt though.
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    Looks ok. if its ok on the other gears then it's more likely you need a new cassette and chain. No good changing just one.

    I'd have to disagree. If you change your chain before it starts to cause damage to the cassette teeth then you will get many more miles out of the cassette. The photo of yours certainly doesn't appear to show any misshapen cogs. For info, looking at the cassette side on, the 'troughs' between the teeth should appear as a 'u' shape. If the u has started to wear it will be elongated on one side of the u, looking like a combination of one side still a u, the other side a u. Does that make sense? :mrgreen:

    If you buy a cheap chain measuring device you can test your chain for stretch which is what causes this wear. Change your chain before you reach the wear limit and you will prolong cassette life. I tend to get a cassette to last for three chains by changing before excessive wear.

    If you fit a split link to your chain it is easy to remove and clean/ check for tight or twisted links periodically as well. They cost just a couple of quid and it is worth having one in your saddle pack along with a simple chain tool which can get you home if you snap/ twist a link.

    PP

    I agree. I was coming from the point that the cassette is worn.
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    Veronese68 wrote:
    I got one of these from Rose bikes and straightened my hanger, works a treat.

    I have the same tool. Taking my time I could tell my hanger was slightly out of alignment, barely noticable to the naked eye. Nice to know its where it ought to be now :lol:

    493080_1.jpg
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  • dgunthor
    dgunthor Posts: 644
    definately bent. get a park tool chain wear device (their basic one) and measure your chain now and again - will get 3 chains or more to a cassette if you replace when 0.7 wear indicated

    put the new chain on, if it skips then new cassette too
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    balthazar wrote:
    neilo23 wrote:
    balthazar wrote:
    neilo23 wrote:
    Thanks chaps. I don't know how it could be bent as the bike hasn't had any knocks but I'll take it to the other shop. The only problem with that is that I don't drive and it's at the top of a 15km hill: I usually have to use the big sprockets for the last 2km and they're the ones the chain keeps slipping off :D

    Do you have another back wheel? If you remove the skewer you can thread it into the mech hanger and use it both to straighten the hanger, and to measure across to the fitted wheel to determine if it's parallel. That should get you close enough that you can have a shop finish it when convenient.

    Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a go. If anything snaps off I'll sue you :lol:

    I'll phone my lawyer forthwith..! (if I had a lawyer). (On a side note, if I ever get arrested, I'm determined to ask for my "brief", just 'cos it sounds cool.)

    Anyway. Be careful with any bending- in your first picture to looks like there could be a fatigue fracture- hairline crack- across the hanger, in the centre of this pic:

    Screen%20Shot%202014-03-17%20at%2014.37.23.png

    If so, you WILL break it. Could be a hair or dirt though.

    Just dirt :D
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    Can the derailleur itself bend? To my naked eye the hanger looks straight but the derailleur itself seems twisted (ie top jockey wheel is parallel to the cogs but the bottom one seems to point outwards).

    Hope the pics are clear enough.
    image.jpg

    image.jpg
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,567
    The hanger is designed to be the weak point. It should bend before the derailleur, or frame, does. The whole point is that it's the cheap bit that sacrifices itself to protect more costly components.
  • To my eyes it looks as if the dropout itself is bent.
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    To my eyes it looks as if the dropout itself is bent.

    They don't often come out of the moulds looking perfect - one thing a hanger should do is make up for any discrepancies. A new hanger may need 'bending'.

    My 2p is that the hanger is bent - you can see the inward curve on the top part which sits adjacent to the dropout.

    neilo23... any news on this?
    Ben

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  • CYCLESPORT1
    CYCLESPORT1 Posts: 471
    Take it to a GOOD bike shop - clean the drivechain first !
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    Ben6899 wrote:
    To my eyes it looks as if the dropout itself is bent.

    They don't often come out of the moulds looking perfect - one thing a hanger should do is make up for any discrepancies. A new hanger may need 'bending'.

    My 2p is that the hanger is bent - you can see the inward curve on the top part which sits adjacent to the dropout.

    neilo23... any news on this?

    Hi. I phoned 3 bike shops and the next appointment I could get was for the middle of April! I know a lad who works as a mechanic in the first bike shop I tried and he's going to do it for me privately. I showed him the photos and he's pretty sure the hanger's bent. The problem here (in Germany) is that every granny is getting her e-bike prepared for the summer which is more lucrative for them. 2 shops I tried said straight away that they don't even have a Campag 11 speed chain tool!

    I would take it to the shop where I bought it. Really good shop owned by an old pro (http://www.il-diavolo.com/de/index.html) but that would mean a 2 1/2 train trip for a 20-30 minute job. Annoying!
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    neilo23 wrote:
    2 shops I tried said straight away that they don't even have a Campag 11 speed chain tool!

    I'll be in Munich on 7 April, I could bring my campag 11sp chain tool :wink:
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  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    drlodge wrote:
    neilo23 wrote:
    2 shops I tried said straight away that they don't even have a Campag 11 speed chain tool!

    I'll be in Munich on 7 April, I could bring my campag 11sp chain tool :wink:

    Deal! I'll ride down. It's only a few hundred ks :lol:
  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    The pivot point that the jockey wheel cage rotates around should be parallel with the wheel axle. Just looking at your pictures the cage appears not vertical and that pivot point is not parallel with the centre line of the axle. These are both symptomatic of a bent hangar.

    It really isn't a difficult job to straighten it yourself with the correct tool, as you can see from the Park Tools link in my previous post. If the wait for a bike shop is going to be that long perhaps buy the tool online and have a go. If you need a new hangar it may be worth ordering one of them and have it standing by incase the old one is beyond saving.

    If the cassette needs changing a simple, suitable lock ring tool and chain whip are cheap enough and it is very, very simple to change the cassette yourself, you don't need Campagnolo tools, just Campagnolo compatible tools. The cheap ones will be fine for very occasional use.

    Fitting a new chain is also very simple. All you need is a chain tool to break the old one and shorten the new one to the correct length and a split link to fit to your new chain. Again, the tools are very cheap.

    Why not have a go, what's the worst thing that can happen? If it's broken now and you can't fix it, it will still be broken and you can get the lad from the bike shop to sort it out!

    PP
  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    Oh and p.s. If you and the bike come near Manchester I'll do it for you! It'll only cost you a cappuccino and a slice of carrot cake when we go for a ride out into the Peak District to check the workmanship! :wink:

    Oh and in your first post you said you couldn't find pictures of hangars to compare. Try http://www.mountainbikecomponents.co.uk/result.asp?CategoryID=193&Name=HANGERS+%2F+DERAILLEUR+%2F+GEAR+HANGER+%2F+DROPOUT+%2F+MECH+HANGERS+%2F+FORCELLINO+%2F+SCHALTAUGE+%2F+HANGERS

    Or their PDF of all their hangers http://www.mountainbikecomponents.co.uk/items.asp?CategoryID=188&Name=PDF+of+hangers

    PP
  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    Pilot Pete wrote:
    Oh and p.s. If you and the bike come near Manchester I'll do it for you! It'll only cost you a cappuccino and a slice of carrot cake when we go for a ride out into the Peak District to check the workmanship! :wink:

    Oh and in your first post you said you couldn't find pictures of hangars to compare. Try http://www.mountainbikecomponents.co.uk/result.asp?CategoryID=193&Name=HANGERS+%2F+DERAILLEUR+%2F+GEAR+HANGER+%2F+DROPOUT+%2F+MECH+HANGERS+%2F+FORCELLINO+%2F+SCHALTAUGE+%2F+HANGERS

    Or their PDF of all their hangers http://www.mountainbikecomponents.co.uk/items.asp?CategoryID=188&Name=PDF+of+hangers

    PP

    Thanks Pete. I have a bar so I'll just bring the coffe machine with me to save a few pennies :lol:
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,567
    Hang on. Bike shops can't straighten a hanger as they don't have the 11 speed chain tool? I did mine quickly by unscrewing the mech and leaving it on the chain, only took a few moments. Admittedly if I'd had more time I would have done a clean and degrease whilst I was at it, but you can straighten a hanger without splitting the chain.
  • drlodge
    drlodge Posts: 4,826
    Veronese68 wrote:
    Hang on. Bike shops can't straighten a hanger as they don't have the 11 speed chain tool? I did mine quickly by unscrewing the mech and leaving it on the chain, only took a few moments. Admittedly if I'd had more time I would have done a clean and degrease whilst I was at it, but you can straighten a hanger without splitting the chain.

    Correct, think I did mine that way. But I have an 11sp quicklink so don't need to use the 11 speed chain tool that I DO have anyway :wink:
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  • neilo23
    neilo23 Posts: 783
    Veronese68 wrote:
    Hang on. Bike shops can't straighten a hanger as they don't have the 11 speed chain tool? I did mine quickly by unscrewing the mech and leaving it on the chain, only took a few moments. Admittedly if I'd had more time I would have done a clean and degrease whilst I was at it, but you can straighten a hanger without splitting the chain.

    No, that was because I need to change the chain as well.

    Sometimes I zinking I living too long in ze Fatherland and making ze silly mistakes wiz ze Inglish :D