Titanium Vs Carbon Frames

malayneum

why i never see any world cup rider using Titanium frame? is Titanium really that heavy? Why companies such as Lynskey or Moots never sponsored one?

The Rookie

malayneum wrote:

why i never see any world cup rider using Titanium frame? is Titanium really that heavy? Why companies such as Lynskey or Moots never sponsored one?

Yes Titanium is really that heavy, heavier than an ally frame, just look at advertised frame weights.

A world cup level carbon frame is around 1Kg (Trek claim circa 850g for an 18" Superfly frame before armour and protectors - they come out at about 1.2Kg ready to build), a Ti frame at best will be circa 1.7Kg (advertised for 456 Ti 14"), so that's a 0.5+Kg weight penalty if every other component is the same.

The Northern Monkey

Great comparison there... a xc frame v a long travel hardtail.

The Rookie

Two I found quickly and the 456 can be used at 100mm and I used a small/26".....the Lynskey which I'd have preferred to use I couldn't find weights for in a sensible time. Now found one at 1343g on a private website, but that needed protection added so the total frame weight was over 1400g. Still heavier than a decent carbon or alluminium alloy frame.

poah

before alu bikes where mass produced titanium was used to make light strong bikes. no reason to make it out of titanium these days when carbon and alu are mass produced. for things like bolts its different as alu is soft

njee20

Trek claim circa 850g for an 18" Superfly frame before armour and protectors - they come out at about 1.2Kg ready to build

Not true - the Superfly SL frame (which mine isn't) is guaranteed to be below 900g all in. The Scale 899 and Cannondale Flash are the same.

A Merlin XLM used to be 2.83lbs in 17.25" back in the day, so 1284g, but obviously QR, 26" wheels, 1.125" headtube etc. Comparing like for like, Lynskey do a Pro SL 29er frame, but I can't find a weight with a quick Google. Slightly ominous when they do a Pro 29 and an SL variant, they talk about how it's lighter, but don't quantify it...

To answer the OP's question there have been a few people/teams racing ti bikes, Polo Ralph Lauren/Litespeed many years ago, Mary McConneloug and her husband rode Sevens a couple of years ago for Kenda/someone or other. I think a lot of it is manufacturer budget - look at most bikes being raced, they're mainly from big manufacturers: Spesh, Giant, Trek, Scott, Cannondale etc. None of them make ti bikes.

I'd never buy a ti frame to race on, (sweeping generalisation alert), they're either heavy and stiff, but harsh, or light and comfy, but flexy. Carbon generally ticks more boxes.

The Rookie

njee20 wrote:

Trek claim circa 850g for an 18" Superfly frame before armour and protectors - they come out at about 1.2Kg ready to build

Not true - the Superfly SL frame (which mine isn't) is guaranteed to be below 900g all in.

Thanks, had been trying to understand that, didn't realise the SL and stock 'fly frame were different!

njee20

Yep, weirdly they do a Superfly 9.7/9.8 complete bike and a 9.8 frame (for £1000), then there's a Superfly SL 9.8 and 9.9 Project One bike, but no frame only option.

The SL 9.8 is £1100 more than the 'normal' 9.8. I thought about it, but a) didn't expect the frame weights to be that different, b) didn't really want to pay the £1100 extra for the saving and c) didn't like the colour or the fork the complete bike comes with.

ednino

I really fancied a Torus ti hardtail... but at 1520 g
A Whyte carbon hardtail in the same size is 1130g

I'm a weight weenie btw

njee20

Where are you looking? Their website says 1720g for a medium?

That's even worse! A friend races on a Salsa a la Carte ti hardtail or two, certainly doesn't slow him down.

nickfrog

Back in the days (late 90s), the SUNN XC WC team used Ti frames "disguised" as Colombus steel frames... The main problem was not so much weight but damage while racing, transporting, maintaining etc...

Obviously CF wasn't used so much then...