Bob Crow

Lookyhere
Lookyhere Posts: 987
edited March 2014 in The cake stop
was shocked to hear of his death, he was a great trades union leader and I really enjoyed listening to his views, I wish that the pathetic union (GMB) I used to belong to had a leader of his stature...RIP
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Comments

  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    I fear this could descend a bit. Let's face it, Bob Crow divided opinions and I for one will not be signing up to the "Petition for a Bob Crow Memorial". I simply look forward to public transport in London running in a more predictable fashion rather than having the fear of another walkout ruining yet another business trip or family outing.
  • nathancom
    nathancom Posts: 1,567
    He stood up for the members of the union and worked for their benefit. That he pissed off a lot of Tories was just an added bonus. RIP Bob, May you luxuriate for eternity on a Brazilian beach somewhere.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Interesting, isn't it, how everyone from Boris to Dave is lining up to show respect from a perspective of a) plain human decency and b) thoughtful assessment of Crow's political and industrial achievements.

    Contrasts pretty sharply with the mass hate-fest when Thatcher died, doesn't it? With comments typified by "I hope she rots in hell" from, errr, Bob Crow.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    bompington wrote:
    Interesting, isn't it, how everyone from Boris to Dave is lining up to show respect from a perspective of a) plain human decency and b) thoughtful assessment of Crow's political and industrial achievements.

    Contrasts pretty sharply with the mass hate-fest when Thatcher died, doesn't it? With comments typified by "I hope she rots in hell" from, errr, Bob Crow.


    The left always wanted a classless society. I have to admit they have done their bit, as they have no class whatsoever.
  • arran77
    arran77 Posts: 9,260
    He certainly stood up for what he believed in but his methods were out dated, as Paxman said to him in his last interview, he was a dinosaur and we all know what happened to them :wink:
    "Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity" :lol:

    seanoconn
  • Paulie W
    Paulie W Posts: 1,492
    Ballysmate wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Interesting, isn't it, how everyone from Boris to Dave is lining up to show respect from a perspective of a) plain human decency and b) thoughtful assessment of Crow's political and industrial achievements.

    Contrasts pretty sharply with the mass hate-fest when Thatcher died, doesn't it? With comments typified by "I hope she rots in hell" from, errr, Bob Crow.


    The left always wanted a classless society. I have to admit they have done their bit, as they have no class whatsoever.

    2 things here: Bob Crow died at a young age, Margaret Thatcher at a ripe old age. An early death tends to elicit more sympathy. Secondly, Crow politically antangonised people and through his actions inconvenienced a number of Londoners; Thatcher, whatever your views on her politics, through her policies, her ideology, changed millions of peoples lives, a good number of them for the worse. I would think it is pretty clear why the reaction has been different.
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    Paulie W wrote:
    ... Thatcher, whatever your views on her politics, through her policies, her ideology, changed millions of peoples lives, a good number of them for the worse. ...

    ...and a good number for the better. Right to buy housing brought a massive change to ordinary folks.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    Paulie W wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Interesting, isn't it, how everyone from Boris to Dave is lining up to show respect from a perspective of a) plain human decency and b) thoughtful assessment of Crow's political and industrial achievements.

    Contrasts pretty sharply with the mass hate-fest when Thatcher died, doesn't it? With comments typified by "I hope she rots in hell" from, errr, Bob Crow.


    The left always wanted a classless society. I have to admit they have done their bit, as they have no class whatsoever.

    2 things here: Bob Crow died at a young age, Margaret Thatcher at a ripe old age. An early death tends to elicit more sympathy. Secondly, Crow politically antangonised people and through his actions inconvenienced a number of Londoners; Thatcher, whatever your views on her politics, through her policies, her ideology, changed millions of peoples lives, a good number of them for the worse. I would think it is pretty clear why the reaction has been different.

    So the Left's reaction to Thatcher's death was classy then? :wink:
  • Paulie W
    Paulie W Posts: 1,492
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    ... Thatcher, whatever your views on her politics, through her policies, her ideology, changed millions of peoples lives, a good number of them for the worse. ...

    ...and a good number for the better. Right to buy housing brought a massive change to ordinary folks.

    That's not really the point though is it - if you dont understand why so many people reacted in the way they did to Thatcher's death then you dont have much of a grasp of the UK in the 70s, 80s and 90s. She was a major, major figure in the UK and globally. Bob Crow is a marginal figure who is never going to attract much more than mild contempt from those who disliked his politics, his working style and who hated the disruption the strikes caused.
  • Paulie W
    Paulie W Posts: 1,492
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Interesting, isn't it, how everyone from Boris to Dave is lining up to show respect from a perspective of a) plain human decency and b) thoughtful assessment of Crow's political and industrial achievements.

    Contrasts pretty sharply with the mass hate-fest when Thatcher died, doesn't it? With comments typified by "I hope she rots in hell" from, errr, Bob Crow.


    The left always wanted a classless society. I have to admit they have done their bit, as they have no class whatsoever.

    2 things here: Bob Crow died at a young age, Margaret Thatcher at a ripe old age. An early death tends to elicit more sympathy. Secondly, Crow politically antangonised people and through his actions inconvenienced a number of Londoners; Thatcher, whatever your views on her politics, through her policies, her ideology, changed millions of peoples lives, a good number of them for the worse. I would think it is pretty clear why the reaction has been different.

    So the Left's reaction to Thatcher's death was classy then? :wink:

    Personally, I think a lot of people would have done better to keep their thoughts to themselves. I felt no joy at her death; I didnt dance in the streets. But I had some understanding of why others did.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    Paulie W wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Interesting, isn't it, how everyone from Boris to Dave is lining up to show respect from a perspective of a) plain human decency and b) thoughtful assessment of Crow's political and industrial achievements.

    Contrasts pretty sharply with the mass hate-fest when Thatcher died, doesn't it? With comments typified by "I hope she rots in hell" from, errr, Bob Crow.


    The left always wanted a classless society. I have to admit they have done their bit, as they have no class whatsoever.

    2 things here: Bob Crow died at a young age, Margaret Thatcher at a ripe old age. An early death tends to elicit more sympathy. Secondly, Crow politically antangonised people and through his actions inconvenienced a number of Londoners; Thatcher, whatever your views on her politics, through her policies, her ideology, changed millions of peoples lives, a good number of them for the worse. I would think it is pretty clear why the reaction has been different.

    So the Left's reaction to Thatcher's death was classy then? :wink:

    Personally, I think a lot of people would have done better to keep their thoughts to themselves. I felt no joy at her death; I didnt dance in the streets. But I had some understanding of why others did.

    That's 'No' then? :lol:
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Bob Crow stood up for his members, got them pay rises and better t&cs, in other words he did what he was elected to do.
    what is happening now, is that the bosses have all the rights and workers non or v. little.

    Employers can do pretty much what they like, pay themselves huge pay rises and give their employees nothing, director pay is through the roof, just look at what the co-op have done recently, a failed company but does that stop them...of course not!

    Bob Crow what ever his methods tried to turn that tide and he ran rings around BJ and Paxman, TFL must be rubbing their hands with glee.
    thatchers right to buy bought about the collapse in social housing, extortionate private rent rises and crimpling housing benefit bills, fine if you own a portfolio of houses, less so if your on low pay and cuts in said benefit, Housing benefit is 9billion and rising fast, 29% more expensive than social housing or associations.

    she was power crazed megalomaniac and started a war, by sinking the belgrano, to boost her own disastrous poll ratings.
  • Bobbinogs
    Bobbinogs Posts: 4,841
    Paulie W wrote:
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    ... Thatcher, whatever your views on her politics, through her policies, her ideology, changed millions of peoples lives, a good number of them for the worse. ...

    ...and a good number for the better. Right to buy housing brought a massive change to ordinary folks.

    That's not really the point though is it - if you dont understand why so many people reacted in the way they did to Thatcher's death then you dont have much of a grasp of the UK in the 70s, 80s and 90s. She was a major, major figure in the UK and globally. Bob Crow is a marginal figure who is never going to attract much more than mild contempt from those who disliked his politics, his working style and who hated the disruption the strikes caused.

    Sorry, but that is the point. I lived through the 70s and we were as poor as church mice. My mum managed to buy her council house and has significantly improved the quality of her life by selling the original one and now living in something she could only have dreamed about before. As usual, one cannot just pick the bits in history that suits one to make a point. A lot of political leaders have supporters and detractors, that is the nature of the beast and it would be totally wrong to suggest that the world generally rejoiced at Thatcher's passing.
  • VmanF3
    VmanF3 Posts: 240
    Please don't start a Thatcher debate in a Bob Crow ' sorry to see you go' thread.

    Hated the mans politics, but admired his stance and tenacity. He had conviction, a trait somewhat missing with many folk in public life.

    He's now going 'underground' permanently. How fitting.
    Big Red, Blue, Pete, Bill & Doug
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    mamba80 wrote:
    Bob Crow stood up for his members, got them pay rises and better t&cs, in other words he did what he was elected to do.
    what is happening now, is that the bosses have all the rights and workers non or v. little.

    Employers can do pretty much what they like, pay themselves huge pay rises and give their employees nothing, director pay is through the roof, just look at what the co-op have done recently, a failed company but does that stop them...of course not!

    Bob Crow what ever his methods tried to turn that tide and he ran rings around BJ and Paxman, TFL must be rubbing their hands with glee.
    thatchers right to buy bought about the collapse in social housing, extortionate private rent rises and crimpling housing benefit bills, fine if you own a portfolio of houses, less so if your on low pay and cuts in said benefit, Housing benefit is 9billion and rising fast, 29% more expensive than social housing or associations.

    she was power crazed megalomaniac and started a war, by sinking the belgrano, to boost her own disastrous poll ratings.

    I agree that Bob Crow worked to get the best deal for his members. That was his job, he was good at it and he deserves respect for that.
    i am not going to resurrect the Thatcher debate (Note the capital T by the way. Was that a Freudian slip? :wink: ), it has been done to death. :oops:
    As regards the Falklands War, I seem to recall the cause being Argentina invading another sovereign territory.
    As regards the housing benefit costs, I am in full agreement with you, it should be reduced. :wink:
  • florerider
    florerider Posts: 1,112
    "started a war by sinking the Belgrano"

    There is a difference between disagreeing with Thatcher' s policies and espousing this sort of rubbish.

    Do you remember the 1970s? The 3 day week? Rotating power cuts?
  • Paulie W
    Paulie W Posts: 1,492
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    ... Thatcher, whatever your views on her politics, through her policies, her ideology, changed millions of peoples lives, a good number of them for the worse. ...

    ...and a good number for the better. Right to buy housing brought a massive change to ordinary folks.

    That's not really the point though is it - if you dont understand why so many people reacted in the way they did to Thatcher's death then you dont have much of a grasp of the UK in the 70s, 80s and 90s. She was a major, major figure in the UK and globally. Bob Crow is a marginal figure who is never going to attract much more than mild contempt from those who disliked his politics, his working style and who hated the disruption the strikes caused.

    Sorry, but that is the point. I lived through the 70s and we were as poor as church mice. My mum managed to buy her council house and has significantly improved the quality of her life by selling the original one and now living in something she could only have dreamed about before. As usual, one cannot just pick the bits in history that suits one to make a point. A lot of political leaders have supporters and detractors, that is the nature of the beast and it would be totally wrong to suggest that the world generally rejoiced at Thatcher's passing.

    Are you deliberately missing the point I'm making? It would seem so. Where have I said the 'world rejoiced'? Nowhere. I was making the point that it is easy to understand why some people had such a visceral reaction to Thatcher's death when compared to the reaction to Crow's death.
  • florerider
    florerider Posts: 1,112
    Paulie W wrote:
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    ... Thatcher, whatever your views on her politics, through her policies, her ideology, changed millions of peoples lives, a good number of them for the worse. ...

    ...and a good number for the better. Right to buy housing brought a massive change to ordinary folks.

    That's not really the point though is it - if you dont understand why so many people reacted in the way they did to Thatcher's death then you dont have much of a grasp of the UK in the 70s, 80s and 90s. She was a major, major figure in the UK and globally. Bob Crow is a marginal figure who is never going to attract much more than mild contempt from those who disliked his politics, his working style and who hated the disruption the strikes caused.

    Sorry, but that is the point. I lived through the 70s and we were as poor as church mice. My mum managed to buy her council house and has significantly improved the quality of her life by selling the original one and now living in something she could only have dreamed about before. As usual, one cannot just pick the bits in history that suits one to make a point. A lot of political leaders have supporters and detractors, that is the nature of the beast and it would be totally wrong to suggest that the world generally rejoiced at Thatcher's passing.

    Are you deliberately missing the point I'm making? It would seem so. Where have I said the 'world rejoiced'? Nowhere. I was making the point that it is easy to understand why some people had such a visceral reaction to Thatcher's death when compared to the reaction to Crow's death.

    Difference between understanding THAT people had a visceral reaction to Thatcher is different to understanding WHY they had such reaction to her death. The why concerns the lack of human decency.

    I thought the reaction to Bob Crow was a return to decency.
  • badgerbeaver
    badgerbeaver Posts: 102
    His family are asking for no questions from the press at this sad time, plus 2 additional days off at Christmas on full pay.

    In Tribute to the passing of Bob Crow. I'll walk to work tomorrow. It's what he always wanted.
  • nathancom
    nathancom Posts: 1,567
    florerider wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    ... Thatcher, whatever your views on her politics, through her policies, her ideology, changed millions of peoples lives, a good number of them for the worse. ...

    ...and a good number for the better. Right to buy housing brought a massive change to ordinary folks.

    That's not really the point though is it - if you dont understand why so many people reacted in the way they did to Thatcher's death then you dont have much of a grasp of the UK in the 70s, 80s and 90s. She was a major, major figure in the UK and globally. Bob Crow is a marginal figure who is never going to attract much more than mild contempt from those who disliked his politics, his working style and who hated the disruption the strikes caused.

    Sorry, but that is the point. I lived through the 70s and we were as poor as church mice. My mum managed to buy her council house and has significantly improved the quality of her life by selling the original one and now living in something she could only have dreamed about before. As usual, one cannot just pick the bits in history that suits one to make a point. A lot of political leaders have supporters and detractors, that is the nature of the beast and it would be totally wrong to suggest that the world generally rejoiced at Thatcher's passing.

    Are you deliberately missing the point I'm making? It would seem so. Where have I said the 'world rejoiced'? Nowhere. I was making the point that it is easy to understand why some people had such a visceral reaction to Thatcher's death when compared to the reaction to Crow's death.

    Difference between understanding THAT people had a visceral reaction to Thatcher is different to understanding WHY they had such reaction to her death. The why concerns the lack of human decency.

    I thought the reaction to Bob Crow was a return to decency.
    There is no need to be decent to someone who tried to destroy working class Britain. She was an abomination and it was good riddance. Live in a fantasy world of everyone being nice and polite to everyone else all the time but I am happy that people had the chance to express their opinions under the onslaught of Tory hagiography that they threw at her death. It shows that this country is run for the rich that she of all people was given a state funeral. I would rather celebrate Bob Crow's life than her down there.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    I think there is a pretty strong case that "working class Britain", whatever that is, has suffered far more from the blindly futile acts of union leaders than it ever did from Thatcher or any other prime minister. (Nathancom - your blind tribalistic hatred belongs entirely with their mindset)

    Even Crow's much vaunted "success" has surely only hastened the day when driverless trains (I reckon any tech-savvy 15yo with a Raspberry Pi could set one up without too much hassle) take over: was his strategy really just to milk it while he could, in the full knowledge that it couldn't possibly last long?
  • nathancom
    nathancom Posts: 1,567
    bompington wrote:
    I think there is a pretty strong case that "working class Britain", whatever that is, has suffered far more from the blindly futile acts of union leaders than it ever did from Thatcher or any other prime minister. (Nathancom - your blind tribalistic hatred belongs entirely with their mindset)

    Even Crow's much vaunted "success" has surely only hastened the day when driverless trains (I reckon any tech-savvy 15yo with a Raspberry Pi could set one up without too much hassle) take over: was his strategy really just to milk it while he could, in the full knowledge that it couldn't possibly last long?
    You think there isn't a constant war being waged by the rich on the poor? You are either rich or blind. There are too few people like Bob Crow who are willing to take the fight to the rich as they double their salaries and suck wealth out of companies.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    So how would "the rich" be defined? Personally I would use the time-honoured definition of "anyone who earns more than 20% more than me", e.g. a tube driver. Or Bob Crow.
  • nathancom
    nathancom Posts: 1,567
    bompington wrote:
    So how would "the rich" be defined? Personally I would use the time-honoured definition of "anyone who earns more than 20% more than me", e.g. a tube driver. Or Bob Crow.
    Then like most of the rest of us you are a muggee not a mugger. The 85 richest individuals have a net worth that is greater than the poorest 3.5 billion people on this planet. I honestly think we need more people like Bob Crow to turn that around. He was no saint but he did fight for the rights of honest working people.
  • arran77
    arran77 Posts: 9,260
    nathancom wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    So how would "the rich" be defined? Personally I would use the time-honoured definition of "anyone who earns more than 20% more than me", e.g. a tube driver. Or Bob Crow.
    Then like most of the rest of us you are a muggee not a mugger. The 85 richest individuals have a net worth that is greater than the poorest 3.5 billion people on this planet. I honestly think we need more people like Bob Crow to turn that around. He was no saint but he did fight for the rights of honest working people.

    That's a rather idealistic view and one which won't happen in my opinion.

    The 'haves' are far more powerful than the 'have not's' and have far more to loose.

    No amount of bully-boy tactics will change that!!
    "Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity" :lol:

    seanoconn
  • florerider
    florerider Posts: 1,112
    nathancom wrote:
    florerider wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    ... Thatcher, whatever your views on her politics, through her policies, her ideology, changed millions of peoples lives, a good number of them for the worse. ...

    ...and a good number for the better. Right to buy housing brought a massive change to ordinary folks.

    That's not really the point though is it - if you dont understand why so many people reacted in the way they did to Thatcher's death then you dont have much of a grasp of the UK in the 70s, 80s and 90s. She was a major, major figure in the UK and globally. Bob Crow is a marginal figure who is never going to attract much more than mild contempt from those who disliked his politics, his working style and who hated the disruption the strikes caused.

    Sorry, but that is the point. I lived through the 70s and we were as poor as church mice. My mum managed to buy her council house and has significantly improved the quality of her life by selling the original one and now living in something she could only have dreamed about before. As usual, one cannot just pick the bits in history that suits one to make a point. A lot of political leaders have supporters and detractors, that is the nature of the beast and it would be totally wrong to suggest that the world generally rejoiced at Thatcher's passing.

    Are you deliberately missing the point I'm making? It would seem so. Where have I said the 'world rejoiced'? Nowhere. I was making the point that it is easy to understand why some people had such a visceral reaction to Thatcher's death when compared to the reaction to Crow's death.

    Difference between understanding THAT people had a visceral reaction to Thatcher is different to understanding WHY they had such reaction to her death. The why concerns the lack of human decency.

    I thought the reaction to Bob Crow was a return to decency.
    There is no need to be decent to someone who tried to destroy working class Britain. She was an abomination and it was good riddance. Live in a fantasy world of everyone being nice and polite to everyone else all the time but I am happy that people had the chance to express their opinions under the onslaught of Tory hagiography that they threw at her death. It shows that this country is run for the rich that she of all people was given a state funeral. I would rather celebrate Bob Crow's life than her down there.

    you mean the expression of the voters that put her in office 3 times? Were they the people who had the chance to express their opinions you refer to? It was the very Tory elite that you complain about that removed her.
  • nathancom
    nathancom Posts: 1,567
    arran77 wrote:
    nathancom wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    So how would "the rich" be defined? Personally I would use the time-honoured definition of "anyone who earns more than 20% more than me", e.g. a tube driver. Or Bob Crow.
    Then like most of the rest of us you are a muggee not a mugger. The 85 richest individuals have a net worth that is greater than the poorest 3.5 billion people on this planet. I honestly think we need more people like Bob Crow to turn that around. He was no saint but he did fight for the rights of honest working people.

    That's a rather idealistic view and one which won't happen in my opinion.

    The 'haves' are far more powerful than the 'have not's' and have far more to loose.

    No amount of bully-boy tactics will change that!!
    It won't happen because they use divide and conquer tactics, bribe this group, disenfranchise that group, provide sufficient entertainment and food for rest. If working people across the world stood up and asked for fair rights and fair wage then they would get it.

    There is nothing more powerful than people working in union with one another, but equally nothing more difficult to achieve than for us to put aside our individual wants and needs for the greater good.

    Anyway better to be an idealist than a cynic I always think.
  • nathancom
    nathancom Posts: 1,567
    florerider wrote:
    nathancom wrote:
    florerider wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    Bobbinogs wrote:
    Paulie W wrote:
    ... Thatcher, whatever your views on her politics, through her policies, her ideology, changed millions of peoples lives, a good number of them for the worse. ...

    ...and a good number for the better. Right to buy housing brought a massive change to ordinary folks.

    That's not really the point though is it - if you dont understand why so many people reacted in the way they did to Thatcher's death then you dont have much of a grasp of the UK in the 70s, 80s and 90s. She was a major, major figure in the UK and globally. Bob Crow is a marginal figure who is never going to attract much more than mild contempt from those who disliked his politics, his working style and who hated the disruption the strikes caused.

    Sorry, but that is the point. I lived through the 70s and we were as poor as church mice. My mum managed to buy her council house and has significantly improved the quality of her life by selling the original one and now living in something she could only have dreamed about before. As usual, one cannot just pick the bits in history that suits one to make a point. A lot of political leaders have supporters and detractors, that is the nature of the beast and it would be totally wrong to suggest that the world generally rejoiced at Thatcher's passing.

    Are you deliberately missing the point I'm making? It would seem so. Where have I said the 'world rejoiced'? Nowhere. I was making the point that it is easy to understand why some people had such a visceral reaction to Thatcher's death when compared to the reaction to Crow's death.

    Difference between understanding THAT people had a visceral reaction to Thatcher is different to understanding WHY they had such reaction to her death. The why concerns the lack of human decency.

    I thought the reaction to Bob Crow was a return to decency.
    There is no need to be decent to someone who tried to destroy working class Britain. She was an abomination and it was good riddance. Live in a fantasy world of everyone being nice and polite to everyone else all the time but I am happy that people had the chance to express their opinions under the onslaught of Tory hagiography that they threw at her death. It shows that this country is run for the rich that she of all people was given a state funeral. I would rather celebrate Bob Crow's life than her down there.

    you mean the expression of the voters that put her in office 3 times? Were they the people who had the chance to express their opinions you refer to? It was the very Tory elite that you complain about that removed her.
    Yeah they replaced her because she screwed up with the Poll tax and was becoming more and more dictatorial. She was really losing it in the late 80's after the economy went tits up. Anyone can look good when you:
    1) win a war against an invading army (for a far off tiny piece of rock)
    2) govern during a period of economic growth following the end of the oil shocks
    3) sell off all the country's assets in an attempt to bribe the voters
  • arran77
    arran77 Posts: 9,260
    nathancom wrote:
    arran77 wrote:
    nathancom wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    So how would "the rich" be defined? Personally I would use the time-honoured definition of "anyone who earns more than 20% more than me", e.g. a tube driver. Or Bob Crow.
    Then like most of the rest of us you are a muggee not a mugger. The 85 richest individuals have a net worth that is greater than the poorest 3.5 billion people on this planet. I honestly think we need more people like Bob Crow to turn that around. He was no saint but he did fight for the rights of honest working people.

    That's a rather idealistic view and one which won't happen in my opinion.

    The 'haves' are far more powerful than the 'have not's' and have far more to loose.

    No amount of bully-boy tactics will change that!!
    It won't happen because they use divide and conquer tactics, bribe this group, disenfranchise that group, provide sufficient entertainment and food for rest. If working people across the world stood up and asked for fair rights and fair wage then they would get it.

    There is nothing more powerful than people working in union with one another, but equally nothing more difficult to achieve than for us to put aside our individual wants and needs for the greater good.

    Anyway better to be an idealist than a cynic I always think.

    I like the sound of your world and couldn't agree more about being an idealist rather than a cynic, however I'm also a realist and no matter how appealing this idea is unfortunately it won't happen......maybe that also makes me a defeatist :lol:
    "Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity" :lol:

    seanoconn
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    nathancom wrote:
    Yeah they replaced her because she screwed up with the Poll tax and was becoming more and more dictatorial. She was really losing it in the late 80's after the economy went tits up. Anyone can look good when you:
    1) win a war against an invading army (for a far off tiny piece of rock)
    2) govern during a period of economic growth following the end of the oil shocks
    3) sell off all the country's assets in an attempt to bribe the voters

    How true, I think Bob Crow would be pleased how this thread progressed :lol:

    re 3, unfortunately if people have the chance to make a few quid, they will and hang the consequences, how many of those one time investors who made some money, selling some cheaply bought shares, now think that it was all a great idea ?

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