Ideal new commuting groupset?

menthel

http://road.cc/content/news/113689-sram ... t-launched

Looks interesting to me. Cobble something together with either discs or trad brakes and I think that the simplicity of it would be great for London, especially with the 46T chainring.

spasypaddy

the answer is di2

meanredspider

spasypaddy wrote:

the answer is di2

+1

cyclingprop

For London? If it ain't fixed, it's broke.

wgwarburton

spasypaddy wrote:

the answer is di2

If the answer is di2 then you may be asking the wrong question. ..

Cheers,
W.

meanredspider

My answer was only slightly tongue-in-cheek. The problem is that "commuting" covers a huge variety of riding. Restricting it to "London" doesn't make it much better. I used Di2 for nearly 2 years for commuting and every other bit of road riding I did. How many problems did I get? Absolutely zero - fit and forget. I only changed cassettes because I was going to be climbing some very steep hills on L2E and wanted 28 on the rear. What's not to like?

cookeeemonster

meanredspider wrote:

My answer was only slightly tongue-in-cheek. The problem is that "commuting" covers a huge variety of riding. Restricting it to "London" doesn't make it much better. I used Di2 for nearly 2 years for commuting and every other bit of road riding I did. How many problems did I get? Absolutely zero - fit and forget. I only changed cassettes because I was going to be climbing some very steep hills on L2E and wanted 28 on the rear. What's not to like?

The massive price?

I think the single chainring thing is a pretty interesting idea..would be useful for a lot of people I think

itboffin

You know that's not a bad idea for moderately hilly commutes, also i was just thinking the other day whats happened to all those fans of belt drive?

asprilla

I still like the idea of a belt drive, it's the Afine hubs that I don't like. I can every close to getting a Spot SS Mod frame instead of the Peregrine so I could have a belt driven, disc braked SSCX. Unfortunately they stopped making it. I guess that means in the only one who thinks it would be a good idea.

My station / shopping hybrid is a 1x9 set-up. For what it's used for it doesn't need anything else.

bobinski

menthel wrote:

http://road.cc/content/news/113689-sram-force-cx1-groupset-launched

Looks interesting to me. Cobble something together with either discs or trad brakes and I think that the simplicity of it would be great for London, especially with the 46T chainring.

I agree. I think I am going swap out the Alfine 11 for this on my pro6. I am used to the gear range and don't find it an issue even in the hills od surrey and Kent. It will be nice to the loose the weight of the hub gear too.

anonymousblackfg

Christ, you lot are living in the dark ages http://pinion.eu/en/

asprilla

anonymousblackfg wrote:

Christ, you lot are living in the dark ages http://pinion.eu/en/

It weighs more than any frame I own.

secretsam

Love it, there's the manufacturers working for years to cram as many sprockets onto a cassette as possible, 'cos the old 10-speed format (for those under 40: 2 chainrings, 5 speed freewheel (like a cassette but not) was "too restrictive" and didn't give a large enough range...

So now what are we seeing? Single chainring at the front and 11 at the back = 11 gears...one more. Now there's progress.

And now steel is back 'in' having been superceded by Ally/Carbon/Ti/Bamboo/Fruit Swizzlers, etc

And single speeds like your Grandad rode back in the '30s are all the rage.

Let's go forwards by going backwards!

markhewitt1978

I would assume commuting in this case means being used in all sorts of weathers, in all sorts of crappy road conditions with a lot of rides before any maintenance or cleaning is done on the drivetrain?

That being the case simple is best which a single front cog fits that bill, but rather falls down due to it being expensive, would have to wait until this trickles down such that you can afford to wreck your components on winter roads.

tgotb

SecretSam wrote:

Love it, there's the manufacturers working for years to cram as many sprockets onto a cassette as possible, 'cos the old 10-speed format (for those under 40: 2 chainrings, 5 speed freewheel (like a cassette but not) was "too restrictive" and didn't give a large enough range...

So now what are we seeing? Single chainring at the front and 11 at the back = 11 gears...one more. Now there's progress.

This groupset is designed and marketed for *cyclocross*.

Go and do some cyclocross races, then come back and tell us why you still think 11 gears with a single chainring and no front mech isn't a step forward...

anonymousblackfg

Asprilla wrote:

It weighs more than any frame I own.

Oddly, even an ultegra set up is the best part of 2kg...

For commuting in a largly flat city i'm perfectly happy with my fixed set up, the whole bike got its fourth clean in three years on Sunday and I've only ever changed two parts of the drivetrain.

asprilla

anonymousblackfg wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

It weighs more than any frame I own.

Oddly, even an ultegra set up is the best part of 2kg...

For what?

The listed weight of that device doesn't include cranks, brakes or levers so it's the equivalent of front mech, rear mech and cassette.

I do like it though. I was looking at a Schlumph Overdrive for the Brompton.

sufferingpete

I think that there is a market for a midweight robust commuting group set.

When I first started 6 spd was the norm and if my memory serves me right the chain and block (cassette) lasted for ages. I cannot remember changing the block. Presumably this is due to the greater chain width.

ugo.santalucia

None of the road groupsets on the market is satisfactory. I would start by getting a custom made chainset from SPA cycles, combined with a square taper BB... it will cost you less than 100 pounds in total and be fit and forget.
Then I'll probably get a couple of Tiagra shifters and matching derailleurs.

rjsterry

ugo.santalucia wrote:

None of the road groupsets on the market is satisfactory. I would start by getting a custom made chainset from SPA cycles, combined with a square taper BB... it will cost you less than 100 pounds in total and be fit and forget.
Then I'll probably get a couple of Tiagra shifters and matching derailleurs.

Got any more detail on that? Had a quick look at their website and I can only see their XD-2 Touring cranks in various configurations. In 15 years I'm on my second square taper BB - I cannot see the attraction of external BB bearings.

ugo.santalucia

rjsterry wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

None of the road groupsets on the market is satisfactory. I would start by getting a custom made chainset from SPA cycles, combined with a square taper BB... it will cost you less than 100 pounds in total and be fit and forget.
Then I'll probably get a couple of Tiagra shifters and matching derailleurs.

Got any more detail on that? Had a quick look at their website and I can only see their XD-2 Touring cranks in various configurations. In 15 years I'm on my second square taper BB - I cannot see the attraction of external BB bearings.

That's the one, fully customisable... ideal... JIS square taper will match any Shimano or other BB

mudcovered

rjsterry wrote:

Got any more detail on that? Had a quick look at their website and I can only see their XD-2 Touring cranks in various configurations. In 15 years I'm on my second square taper BB - I cannot see the attraction of external BB bearings.

There are 3 notional benefits to the external BB.

1. Spline engagement on the removal tool is a lot more positive so you are much less likely to shred the splines taking one off compared to the square taper ones (at least that's been my experience).
2. The external BB design allows for a hollow crank spindle without compromising strength which ought to reduce axle weight.
3. I think the wider bearing stance is also supposed to improve rigidity as well.

The original external BB designs had seriously flawed bearing seals meaning that they required much more frequent replacement that the old square taper BB. I've had the current ultegra external BB cups on my cross bike now for nearly 2 years now and they aren't showing any signs of wear despite significant soakings and coating in mud. Prior to that I'd been going through them at the rate of one a year and I was only making them last that long by running them to the point where the non-drive side bearings had turned to mush before replacing them.

When I was replacing External BB's every year due to wear I was in the same camp as you but since it now appears that the longevity is there I'm happy to use them.

Mike

ugo.santalucia

mudcovered wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Got any more detail on that? Had a quick look at their website and I can only see their XD-2 Touring cranks in various configurations. In 15 years I'm on my second square taper BB - I cannot see the attraction of external BB bearings.

There are 3 notional benefits to the external BB.

1. Spline engagement on the removal tool is a lot more positive so you are much less likely to shred the splines taking one off compared to the square taper ones (at least that's been my experience).
2. The external BB design allows for a hollow crank spindle without compromising strength which ought to reduce axle weight.
3. I think the wider bearing stance is also supposed to improve rigidity as well.

The original external BB designs had seriously flawed bearing seals meaning that they required much more frequent replacement that the old square taper BB. I've had the current ultegra external BB cups on my cross bike now for nearly 2 years now and they aren't showing any signs of wear despite significant soakings and coating in mud. Prior to that I'd been going through them at the rate of one a year and I was only making them last that long by running them to the point where the non-drive side bearings had turned to mush before replacing them.

When I was replacing External BB's every year due to wear I was in the same camp as you but since it now appears that the longevity is there I'm happy to use them.

Mike

I have not noticed this trend, you might have a lucky pair of cartridges there...

Now, how long before someone mentions BB facing?... :twisted:

mudcovered

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I have not noticed this trend, you might have a lucky pair of cartridges there...

You may be right . I was surprised myself when I stripped everything down a couple of weeks back. I was expecting things to be shot after a completely ignoring it all through the rainy season (and I don't use mudguards either ). I'll report back when my luck finally runs out.

Mike

rjsterry

ugo.santalucia wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

None of the road groupsets on the market is satisfactory. I would start by getting a custom made chainset from SPA cycles, combined with a square taper BB... it will cost you less than 100 pounds in total and be fit and forget.
Then I'll probably get a couple of Tiagra shifters and matching derailleurs.

Got any more detail on that? Had a quick look at their website and I can only see their XD-2 Touring cranks in various configurations. In 15 years I'm on my second square taper BB - I cannot see the attraction of external BB bearings.

That's the one, fully customisable... ideal... JIS square taper will match any Shimano or other BB

I see. Ta for that.

@mudcovered: I get the point about a hollow axle and wider spaced bearings, particularly on a lightweight carbon frame with an über stiff oversized BB shell, although not sure how useful those advantages are to traditional steel frames.

mudcovered

rjsterry wrote:

I see. Ta for that.

@mudcovered: I get the point about a hollow axle and wider spaced bearings, particularly on a lightweight carbon frame with an über stiff oversized BB shell, although not sure how useful those advantages are to traditional steel frames.

That's a fair point. Both my MTB's are still square taper although the one in my old Steel marin could do with replacing if only could get enough engagement on the tool to get the old one out .
Mike

wgwarburton

Hi,
Do you have access to an angle grinder?
Sometimes subtlety is not the best option and a more, umm, direct approach is effective.....

Cheers,
W.

ugo.santalucia

rjsterry wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

None of the road groupsets on the market is satisfactory. I would start by getting a custom made chainset from SPA cycles, combined with a square taper BB... it will cost you less than 100 pounds in total and be fit and forget.
Then I'll probably get a couple of Tiagra shifters and matching derailleurs.

Got any more detail on that? Had a quick look at their website and I can only see their XD-2 Touring cranks in various configurations. In 15 years I'm on my second square taper BB - I cannot see the attraction of external BB bearings.

That's the one, fully customisable... ideal... JIS square taper will match any Shimano or other BB

I see. Ta for that.

@mudcovered: I get the point about a hollow axle and wider spaced bearings, particularly on a lightweight carbon frame with an über stiff oversized BB shell, although not sure how useful those advantages are to traditional steel frames.

I have had HT 2, UltraTorque and several square tapers and octalink systems... can't tell the difference when I am pedalling... people buy into the marketing blurb and convince themselves... or otherwise they have a power output that I don't have... I am certainly not a 1000 Watt sprint guy

ugo.santalucia

rjsterry wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

None of the road groupsets on the market is satisfactory. I would start by getting a custom made chainset from SPA cycles, combined with a square taper BB... it will cost you less than 100 pounds in total and be fit and forget.
Then I'll probably get a couple of Tiagra shifters and matching derailleurs.

Got any more detail on that? Had a quick look at their website and I can only see their XD-2 Touring cranks in various configurations. In 15 years I'm on my second square taper BB - I cannot see the attraction of external BB bearings.

That's the one, fully customisable... ideal... JIS square taper will match any Shimano or other BB

I see. Ta for that.

@mudcovered: I get the point about a hollow axle and wider spaced bearings, particularly on a lightweight carbon frame with an über stiff oversized BB shell, although not sure how useful those advantages are to traditional steel frames.

I have had HT 2, UltraTorque and several square tapers and octalink systems... can't tell the difference when I am pedalling... people buy into the marketing blurb and convince themselves... or otherwise they have a power output that I don't have... I am certainly not a 1000 Watt sprint guy

ugo.santalucia

rjsterry wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

None of the road groupsets on the market is satisfactory. I would start by getting a custom made chainset from SPA cycles, combined with a square taper BB... it will cost you less than 100 pounds in total and be fit and forget.
Then I'll probably get a couple of Tiagra shifters and matching derailleurs.

Got any more detail on that? Had a quick look at their website and I can only see their XD-2 Touring cranks in various configurations. In 15 years I'm on my second square taper BB - I cannot see the attraction of external BB bearings.

That's the one, fully customisable... ideal... JIS square taper will match any Shimano or other BB

I see. Ta for that.

@mudcovered: I get the point about a hollow axle and wider spaced bearings, particularly on a lightweight carbon frame with an über stiff oversized BB shell, although not sure how useful those advantages are to traditional steel frames.

I have had HT 2, UltraTorque and several square tapers and octalink systems... can't tell the difference when I am pedalling... people buy into the marketing blurb and convince themselves... or otherwise they have a power output that I don't have... I am certainly not a 1000 Watt sprint guy