thinking of building a wheelset - which componenets

ashleydwsmith

i have been looking at factory wheelsets for my new bike, however looking at them i would like to try and build my own.

can you recommend some relatively lightweight hubs, and rims please. Although they need to be 'budget' i.e not hundreds and hundreds of pounds.

i will be doing general sportive riding long distance no TT or racing.


cheers ash

hypster

Novatec A171/F172 hubs with Mavic Open Pro Rims and Sapim Laser spokes all round 32F/32R laced 3x will come out at 1723g according to my spreadsheet and should cost around £160. I have built up a set like this and they are really nice and reliable (I'm 83kg by the way)

ashleydwsmith

Anything lighter? That's about the weight of my current wheelset

hypster

Maybe you could provide a bit more information about your age, weight, existing kit, fitness, riding style etc. etc. so people could get a reasonable idea what it is you are after?

ugo.santalucia

Why do you want them lighter? The point of building your wheels surely is to make them better, not lighter... anyone can build them lighter, you just have to pick the lightest components you can afford, better is a different story

drlodge

hypster wrote:

Novatec A171/F172 hubs with Mavic Open Pro Rims and Sapim Laser spokes all round 32F/32R laced 3x will come out at 1723g according to my spreadsheet and should cost around £160. I have built up a set like this and they are really nice and reliable (I'm 83kg by the way)

I wouldn't put lasers on the rear, they're not designed for it, race spokes are for the rear, lasers on the front. Other than that, its a good sensible all round wheel.

hypster

drlodge wrote:

hypster wrote:

Novatec A171/F172 hubs with Mavic Open Pro Rims and Sapim Laser spokes all round 32F/32R laced 3x will come out at 1723g according to my spreadsheet and should cost around £160. I have built up a set like this and they are really nice and reliable (I'm 83kg by the way)

I wouldn't put lasers on the rear, they're not designed for it, race spokes are for the rear, lasers on the front. Other than that, its a good sensible all round wheel.

Quite right, I didn't mean Sapim Lasers, I meant Sapim Race of course. I had Lasers on the brain because I answered another query on another forum!

cycleclinic

Well I did a build today that is 1492g very stiff but also very expensive.

Open Pro's with miche novatec or shimano hubs is always a good wheelset so is the same hubs with archetype rims. Pick the spoke count to suit your riding style and weight. More spokes never hurts but laser's on the rear work with some stiff rims but not the Open Pro it is not stiff enough.

ashleydwsmith

Is 1700 an ok weight then? Looking at carbon wheelsets they weigh around the same.

hypster

ashleydwsmith wrote:

Is 1700 an ok weight then? Looking at carbon wheelsets they weigh around the same.

Well you did say in your original post

I will be doing general sportive riding long distance no TT or racing

and

they need to be 'budget' i.e not hundreds and hundreds of pounds

So what did you expect?

ashleydwsmith

I wasn't sure what to expect. But the research I have been doing into wheelsets would have me believe that carbon aeros aren't that much lighter than my aksiums, so this got me thinking as to why I want to change wheelsets. If the difference in weight is going to be a couple of hundred grams then surely the benefits are going to be negligible?

My question is simply is 1700 an ok weight, when you compare to some higher priced carbon offerings. Obviously hub quality and stiffness will come into play at the higher echelons, but weight is a key factor.

But forgive me for asking a question once again on a forum. I must stop doing that as that's not what they are for.

ugo.santalucia

ashleydwsmith wrote:

I wasn't sure what to expect. But the research I have been doing into wheelsets would have me believe that carbon aeros aren't that much lighter than my aksiums, so this got me thinking as to why I want to change wheelsets. If the difference in weight is going to be a couple of hundred grams then surely the benefits are going to be negligible?

My question is simply is 1700 an ok weight, when you compare to some higher priced carbon offerings. Obviously hub quality and stiffness will come into play at the higher echelons, but weight is a key factor.

But forgive me for asking a question once again on a forum. I must stop doing that as that's not what they are for.

When I build wheels for myself I never put weight as a factor... quality of components, how they work together and how they look is what I care about, the differences are in the order of + or - 200 grams, which is an irrelevant mass... things start to get a wee bit different as you shift a pound and really noticeable when you shift 2 pounds... other than that scrimping on the grams is a waste of time, but go ahead, you don't have to trust someone who builds wheels...

hypster

ashleydwsmith wrote:

I wasn't sure what to expect. But the research I have been doing into wheelsets would have me believe that carbon aeros aren't that much lighter than my aksiums, so this got me thinking as to why I want to change wheelsets. If the difference in weight is going to be a couple of hundred grams then surely the benefits are going to be negligible?

My question is simply is 1700 an ok weight, when you compare to some higher priced carbon offerings. Obviously hub quality and stiffness will come into play at the higher echelons, but weight is a key factor.

But forgive me for asking a question once again on a forum. I must stop doing that as that's not what they are for.

Well we've finally got some information out of you that you already have some Mavic Aksiums. Forvive me for being snippy but trying to get your requirements out of you for your wheels is like playing 20 questions. I asked you some posts back for further information so would could suggest something meaningful but you seem less than forthcoming. For that reason I can't be bothered any more.

I suggest if you want decent advice on a forum in future you supply people with the facts rather than wasting their time giving them the run around.

ashleydwsmith

Not giving anyone the run around, just didn't particularly like the way you spoke. I missed the earlier post so apologies for that.

Info as stated sportive riding, weight is ridiculous and something I'm working on. About 100kg. On a new look 675

Apologies again hypster

sloppyschleckonds

hypster wrote:

For that reason I can't be bothered any more.

I suggest if you want decent advice on a forum in future you supply people with the facts rather than wasting their time giving them the run around.

Welcome to BikeRadar

hypster

Right, let's start again.

As Ugo says 200g either way will not make any appreciable difference to the way the wheels perform. With your weight at 100kg you need to be much more concerned about building a set of wheels which are going to be reliable. You say you are intending to lose weight and quite frankly that will have a much bigger effect on your cycling performance than any weight you can save from your wheels. I appreciate that if you do manage to lose a lot of weight in time you don't want to end up with an overbuilt set of wheels but hopefully that won't be the case.

I would say your existing Mavic Aksiums are a reasonable wheel for sportive riding at your current weight. Hopefully they have proved reliable for you so far. I weigh 83kg and have had a set of Aksiums as training wheels for several years and they have always been a good, reliable wheelset but are coming to the end of their life now.

If you are interested in building your own wheels I would suggest my original proposal of Novatec hubs with Mavic Open Pro rims and 32 Sapim Race spokes front and back would be a good starting point. I certainly wouldn't be thinking of going any lighter with your weight at this time. 1700 grams is a pretty standard weight for a sportive/training type wheel and all the components are relatively cheap and readily available should you ding a rim or break a spoke.

I have recently built an identical set for use in various century sportives that I will entering this year and don't feel any need to go lighter even though at my weight I probably could. I built a set of Kinlin XR-270 rims and Miche Primato hubs 24F/28R for my daughter recently and they came out at 1707 grams.

You will find if you start getting into it that you could use a stiffer rim like a H+ Son Archetype with a lower spoke count but will end up with a wheel that weighs substantially the same. Even if you go for silly spoke counts you will only be saving maybe 200g but building a wheel that stands a good chance of failing on you at the worst time. On top of all that lighter components generally cost more money so to spec. a really light wheelset will cost a fair bit.

Since I have started building my own wheels I have been surprised at how little extra weight matters. In actual fact my favourite wheels at the moment are actually my heaviest (1839g) - same spec as above but with Shimano 105 hubs which are heavier than the Novatecs. They just seem to roll really nicely and noticeably different to my other wheels especially the Mavic Aksiums and Mavic Ksyrium Elites that I have which seem to ride harsh by comparison.

I hope that all this is some help to you in deciding if you want to have a go at building your own wheels. I personally would say it is a very worthwhile thing for anyone to do if they think they have the wherewithal to do it. I wouldn't buy a factory built wheel now as it's much more fun to build your own and know you can fix anything quite easily should problems occur.

orangepip

hypster - I have to agree with you about weight, i've just recently got a new set of fulcrum racing quattro's on my new equilibrium and they roll so sweetly, just feel like you could go on forever...

Compared to my hopes (factory) which do not feel anywhere near as smooth has made me feel slightly disappointed with them to be honest.

drlodge

hypster wrote:

If you are interested in building your own wheels I would suggest my original proposal of Novatec hubs with Mavic Open Pro rims and 32 Sapim Race spokes front and back would be a good starting point. I certainly wouldn't be thinking of going any lighter with your weight at this time. 1700 grams is a pretty standard weight for a sportive/training type wheel and all the components are relatively cheap and readily available should you ding a rim or break a spoke.

This is pretty much on the money. At your weight you want to be using at least 32 spokes (race all round), and for me a good starting point is Shimano 105 hubs and Mavic Open Pro rims. You then might want to swap the hubs for Novatec ones (cheaper, still do the job, may need bearings replacing once in a while) and swap the rims out for something like Ambrosio Excellence or Archetype. A pair of hand made wheels to this spec will be under £300, and a great investment.

cycleclinic

For a 100kg rider pick a stiff rim like the archetype, the open pro will work well but the archetype will do the job better. Less wheel flex from a stiffer rim/wheel means slower spoke fatigue and a 100kg rider can pu more side loads on wheels.
Build with sapim race spokes 32F/32R on shimano 105 hubs and you will have a 1924g wheelset that will last.

The novatec A171/F172 hubs are fine and they are lighter but you will never notice hub weight anyway.

racingcondor

+1 on shimano hubs. They weigh a lot more than the Novatech's but it's worth it.

I'll also second what's been said about weight not mattering all that much. I've got some <1,400g tubs which I love but the first wheelset I built was a DA front hub, Ultegra rear with Open Pro's (28/32), weighed in somewhere around 1,800g but under me (65kg) they're so stiff that they always bring a smile to my face. Very different feel to the race wheels but still great wheels (and on their 2nd rims now).

rattyc5

I am no wheel expert but weigh 105 kg. just changed my stock wheels on my trek 1.5 for hs son archtype rims 32 spoke sapim race on shimano 105 hubs. the difference is amazing. when i get out of the saddle the wheels feel much stiffer. there is no more brake rub like there was with the old wheels. best upgrade i could of made. cost me £330 from strada.

ashleydwsmith

cheers for all the responses. esecially the detail in yours hypster, and apologies again.

definitely something i want to get into as i can imagine it being very satisfying. thanks again.

hypster

ashleydwsmith wrote:

cheers for all the responses. esecially the detail in yours hypster, and apologies again.

definitely something i want to get into as i can imagine it being very satisfying. thanks again.

If you need any help or advice with the wheel building then post.

One thing I would advise up front is to get a copy of Roger Musson's ebook "The Professional Guide to Wheel Building".

http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php