Commuting tyre - what width?

tgotb

About to start building the new commuter, around a Kinesis Pro6 frame. Most decisions made, but looking for advice on tyre width. Up to now I've been very happy with 23mm Conti 4 Seasons, but the width of those was defined by the clearances on the old frame. I now have the opportunity to go wider if I want, but will there be any benefit?
I want to stick to 4 Seasons, weigh 85kg, and commute on typical London roads. The bike will have mudguards, and these tyres will be on the bike year-round (unless it snows).

What width tyres should I get, and why?

slowbike

Give 25mm a go ... you should find the ride a little less harsh (ignoring differences in the frame)

I'm currently running 23mm on the road and damp bike and 32mm on the wet/social bike ... the 32mm is noticeably harder work - but that could be because they're heavy tyres!

mr_evil

You should get tyres as wide as possible. Not only are they substantially more comfortable, but various recent tests have shown that that they are actually faster (all else being equal).

dhope

Anecdotal evidence seems suggests 25s are no slower than 23s but more comfy. I've alternated between the two and haven't really noticed much difference.

LiveGiantly

Slowbike wrote:

Give 25mm a go ... you should find the ride a little less harsh (ignoring differences in the frame)

I agree!

Hopefully you'll also have less punctures...I feel confident on my Schwalbe 25s..

secretsam

Flaming tractor tyres would be needed round here, given the state of the roads...

notsoblue

SecretSam wrote:

Flaming tractor tyres would be needed round here, given the state of the roads...

Kieran_Burns

I run 28c GP4 Seasons on my Felt, they can be pumped up to 110psi if you really want and I go off road with them quite happily. Given the parlous state of the London roads I would think that the canal tracks are about equivalent.

veronese68

I was running mine on 28mm Gatorskins and was happy with them. I'm now on 32mm Vittoria Randonneur Cross or something as I wanted a bit more tread for trails in winter. Happy with them too for what they are not quite as fast as the Gatorskins on the road, but roll well enough. You're quite welcome to borrow the Gatorskins if you want to see how they feel size wise. Sketchley has posted a link that relates tyre size and pressures to weight. I'd go with 28s and enjoy the ride in the knowledge that you have a bit more between you and the potholes.

asprilla

I run 25mm 4Seasons on two bikes and 28mm 4Seasons on the Peregrine. The Peregrine rolls a little slower that the other SS but then it's heavier. I don't see any benefit offered by 23mm tyres.

tgotb

Veronese68 wrote:

You're quite welcome to borrow the Gatorskins if you want to see how they feel size wise.

Thanks, I'll take you up on that! I'll drop you a pm when I've finished putting the bike together (probably in a couple of weeks).

cookeeemonster

I'd never go less than 25mm on my road bike now and my cx commuter currently has 28mm marathon pluses...was thinking of trying 32mm next time if they fit but they'd possibly slow me down slightly...so not sure

gbsahne001

I've just put a 32 on the rear of my crosslight and it doesn't really feel any slower than the 25 it replaced

veronese68

TGOTB wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

You're quite welcome to borrow the Gatorskins if you want to see how they feel size wise.

Thanks, I'll take you up on that! I'll drop you a pm when I've finished putting the bike together (probably in a couple of weeks).

ok.

The Rookie

Mr Evil wrote:

You should get tyres as wide as possible. Not only are they substantially more comfortable, but various recent tests have shown that that they are actually faster (all else being equal).

Errr no, tests confirm that 28mm tyres have less rolling resistance than 23/25mm tyres, but that for faster rides the aero benefit of narrower tyres makes them 'faster' than the 28mm's, for commuting (ignoring weight effects) a 28mm is likely to be no slower than 23/25mm as the time spent over about (from memory of the data) 20kph (where the aero benefit starts to outweigh the rolling deficit) is relatively small.

greg66_tri_v2.0

The Rookie wrote:

Mr Evil wrote:

You should get tyres as wide as possible. Not only are they substantially more comfortable, but various recent tests have shown that that they are actually faster (all else being equal).

Errr no, tests confirm that 28mm tyres have less rolling resistance than 23/25mm tyres, but that for faster rides the aero benefit of narrower tyres makes them 'faster' than the 28mm's, for commuting (ignoring weight effects) a 28mm is likely to be no slower than 23/25mm as the time spent over about (from memory of the data) 20kph (where the aero benefit starts to outweigh the rolling deficit) is relatively small.

On which basis, TGOTB should get 23mm.

For me, 25s feel like they are made of glue compared to 23s. Hateful things.

jamesco

TGOTB wrote:

I want to stick to 4 Seasons, weigh 85kg, and commute on typical London roads. The bike will have mudguards, and these tyres will be on the bike year-round (unless it snows).What width tyres should I get, and why?

I'm considerably lighter than you (68kg) and quite possibly considerably slower, yet I've had 3 pinch flats this winter riding on 28mm GP 4 Seasons. So, I'd say to get wider tyres if you can.

Punctures aside, riding my girlfriend's bike last week which has 35mm (maybe 38mm) tyres, it was just astonishing how much more comfortable the ride was.

mr_evil

The Rookie wrote:

Mr Evil wrote:

You should get tyres as wide as possible. Not only are they substantially more comfortable, but various recent tests have shown that that they are actually faster (all else being equal).

Errr no, tests confirm that 28mm tyres have less rolling resistance than 23/25mm tyres, but that for faster rides the aero benefit of narrower tyres makes them 'faster' than the 28mm's, for commuting (ignoring weight effects) a 28mm is likely to be no slower than 23/25mm as the time spent over about (from memory of the data) 20kph (where the aero benefit starts to outweigh the rolling deficit) is relatively small.

So you agree that wider tyres are faster... unless you are suggesting that commuters travel fast enough to worry about tiny differences in aerodynamics.

Just to put some numbers on this - Bicycle Quartely's tests showed no significant difference in aerodynamic drag between 25 and 31mm tyres at 25kph/16mph (probably a typical speed for commuters), and that on the road, 42mm tyres are as fast or faster than 25mm tyres depending on the road surface.

There must indeed be some point where aerodynamic and wight penalties outweigh the reduced rolling resistance, but I am not aware of anyone having demonstrated how wide that is (certainly much wider than most people assume).

bunter

Are you using the kinesis crosslight wheelset that comes with a Pro6? These are quite wide cross rims and I'm not sure that anything narrower than 28mm tyres will sit well in them (and might look pretty ridiculous too). I use 28mm tyres on my Pro6; very happy with them. I run them at about 100 psi for the road and don't get pinch flats (I am big and heavy). 28mm fit under guards easily.

tgotb

No, I'm building up the frameset from scratch; rims will be Ambrosio Excellight.

Comments about the aero tradeoff are correct; I have 21mm tyres on the TT bike for exactly that reason. In this case there are mudguards wide enough for 32mm cross tyres, so it's a bit less of an issue. That said, if my typical commuting speed was 16mph I'd be hanging my head in shame; cruising speed of ~21mph is more in the ballpark...

greg66_tri_v2.0

TGOTB wrote:

No, I'm building up the frameset from scratch; rims will be Ambrosio Excellight.

Comments about the aero tradeoff are correct; I have 21mm tyres on the TT bike for exactly that reason. In this case there are mudguards wide enough for 32mm cross tyres, so it's a bit less of an issue. That said, if my typical commuting speed was 16mph I'd be hanging my head in shame; cruising speed of ~21mph is more in the ballpark...

AIUI the current (haha) thinking on optimising tyres for aero benefits is to match the tyre width to the rim width. Very recent aero rims have gone wider (23-25mm, I think) compared to older rims (21 or less).

tgotb

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

AIUI the current (haha) thinking on optimising tyres for aero benefits is to match the tyre width to the rim width. Very recent aero rims have gone wider (23-25mm, I think) compared to older rims (21 or less).

Yep, exactly right; 23mm tyres on 23mm rims are *currently* reckoned to be better that 21mm tyres on 21mm rims.

Just discovered, on trying to put some 23mm GP4000s on my TT bike for tomorrow's race, that my frame won't actually take a 23mm rear. As a result I shall be relying on an eggcup full of sealant to get me round 30 miles of Surrey roads with paper-thin race tyres :roll: Pinning my long-term hopes on the new 21mm GP4000s that should be appearing any day now...

pitchshifter

Recently purchased some 4seasons in 25mm (as you may remember). I don't notice any real speed difference or comfort for that matter, but when pulling away from lights I feel like I am steering a barge compared to my 23mm.