Rose Xeon CW-3000 or the Rose Xeon CRS-3000

Weston Flyer

Hi Folks,

I'm really sorry but this is another one those Bike A vs Bike B posts, so feel free to ignore and move on if you're fed up to the back teeth with them :oops:

Pennies have been saved and I'm on the verge of upgrading my Giant Defy 1. I've got about £2K to spend, and to use a well worn cliche I'm after the 'best bang for buck'. Unfortunately I can't afford to have a garage full of bikes, so it has to be a one fits all solution (I know that's like asking for a car that copes as well on the track as off road, and probably also floats on water, but we are where we are!). Sorry to be vague but my riding is varied like most folks I suppose, anything from general fitness riding, to sportives, to a 'club 10' TT. My solution for TT's is simply to strap on a set of shorty bars and make do!

In an ideal world I'd be supporting the local shop and test riding loads of bikes, but it's very apparent that the best value for money seems to sit with the likes of Canyon and Rose, which I'm aware comes with all the downsides of buying direct and not supporting the local businesses. Given the extensive wait times at Canyon I think I've narrowed things down to two bikes at Rose, either:

Rose Xeon CW-3000 or the Rose Xeon CRS-3000

Both offer identical groupsets, brakes, and finishing kits etc, and within 100g are identical weights at just under 7kg. The differences lie in the frame (aero vs non-aero traditional) and in the wheelsets. The CW has Rose Xeon Aeros 1500's (which I know nothing about and can't find any information on), and the CRS has Ksyrium Elites. I think my head is saying that the CRS is the best option but for some reason I still find myself confused! What would you do? Any thoughts appreciated, and I'm happy to fill in any blanks if I've missed out any information :?

Thanks in advance.

supermurph09

Not sure what model of Canyon you have looked at but the http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3285 is pretty short on delivery times?

danwallace

There was a cycling plus review on the cw august 2013.

string78

I would go with the CRS, but I would say that as mine is on order and due for delivery next week. Got to test ride the CRS as well as a couple of Canyons at the London Bike Show a couple of weeks ago.

They have some good offers under the "individual pieces" section. They are 2013 models but the frame is exactly the same apart from the finish (matt rather than shiny) and 10 speed groupset.

Communication has been spot on with Rose, normally responding to emails within 30 minutes during office hours. Delivery time at the moment is currently 2 - 3 weeks from orders being placed.

Weston Flyer

Supermurph09 wrote:

Not sure what model of Canyon you have looked at but the http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3285 is pretty short on delivery times?

Thanks. I have to admit I hadn't really considered the aluminium frames. Given that I'm coming from aluminium I've immediately defaulted to carbon fibre as the frame of choice. But you're right an 8 week wait for the M/L sizes is not too bad by Canyon's standards

DanWallace wrote:

There was a cycling plus review on the cw august 2013.

Thanks, yes I read it. Prior to reading that I was more inclined to go with the CW, probably on a looks basis more than anything (yes I'm shallow, I admit it!), but the review harps on about how it's a machine for 'smashing up the roads' and nothing else, and that kind of put me off a bit. I'm not sure I'm that good!

string78 wrote:

I would go with the CRS, but I would say that as mine is on order and due for delivery next week. Got to test ride the CRS as well as a couple of Canyons at the London Bike Show a couple of weeks ago.

They have some good offers under the "individual pieces" section. They are 2013 models but the frame is exactly the same apart from the finish (matt rather than shiny) and 10 speed groupset.

Communication has been spot on with Rose, normally responding to emails within 30 minutes during office hours. Delivery time at the moment is currently 2 - 3 weeks from orders being placed.

Cheers, I've heard nothing but good things about Rose and their service, so that certainly helped influence the decision. We're you looking for an all round bike as well, or have you bought the CRS with a specific purpose in mind? THanks.

string78

Wanted to make the move to carbon. Will mainly be used for solo rides, predominantly flat where I am but also want something that climbs well for any sportives that I plan to do.

I considered the GF, CRS and CW but decided on the CRS as I preferred the look and not worried about the race geometry.

rickeverett

If you are just doing training then the CRS or GF will be a better choice because the CW is a aero racer basically. Pretty low front end.

antsmithmk

I have taken delivery of the CRS3000 today... Wow! More to follow

Weston Flyer

string78 wrote:

Wanted to make the move to carbon. Will mainly be used for solo rides, predominantly flat where I am but also want something that climbs well for any sportives that I plan to do.

I considered the GF, CRS and CW but decided on the CRS as I preferred the look and not worried about the race geometry.

rickeverett wrote:

If you are just doing training then the CRS or GF will be a better choice because the CW is a aero racer basically. Pretty low front end.

Cheers folks, thanks for replying.

antsmithmk wrote:

I have taken delivery of the CRS3000 today... Wow! More to follow

Lucky you I'd definitely be interested to know who things go, but don't take too long the money's already burning a hole!

antsmithmk

Well she is set up and ready to roll... Prob be the club run on the Specialized on Sat however as it will need a shake down or two to get the saddle right etc.

In terms of the service, Rose are fantastic. You get a mail outlining when you are likely to get the bike based on a build date... I might not be the norm but mine was supposed to be built on the 21st of March and with me a week later....!!! Instead it's here today and I ordered less than 2 weeks ago. They are red hot! I changed both the saddle, wheels and bar tape in the bike spec section so it wasn't as if the bike was in stock.

smoggysteve

If you want best bang for buck don't automatically assume that just because Rose/Canyon are cheaper because of their online sales only model they are the best deal. Chances are you pay their price. No discount and very small discount old stock. Wheras looking for shops that have say a 2013 model on sale that is a far better bike is very possible. So what if its not this years model. Most bikes barley change from year to year anyway. Seen bikes with full Sram red on for around 2k on sale.

Weston Flyer

antsmithmk wrote:

Well she is set up and ready to roll... Prob be the club run on the Specialized on Sat however as it will need a shake down or two to get the saddle right etc.

In terms of the service, Rose are fantastic. You get a mail outlining when you are likely to get the bike based on a build date... I might not be the norm but mine was supposed to be built on the 21st of March and with me a week later....!!! Instead it's here today and I ordered less than 2 weeks ago. They are red hot! I changed both the saddle, wheels and bar tape in the bike spec section so it wasn't as if the bike was in stock.

That sounds like pretty much what I've figured I'd do with the changes, after all who wants that shiny bar tape?!
Good luck with first ride out!

SmoggySteve wrote:

If you want best bang for buck don't automatically assume that just because Rose/Canyon are cheaper because of their online sales only model they are the best deal. Chances are you pay their price. No discount and very small discount old stock. Wheras looking for shops that have say a 2013 model on sale that is a far better bike is very possible. So what if its not this years model. Most bikes barley change from year to year anyway. Seen bikes with full Sram red on for around 2k on sale.

Cheers. You're right, having an older model doesn't bother me, but I've not seen anything like the spec you mention for £2K. The best my LBS have come up with is a 2013 Trek Madone 5.2 for £1999, but with their basic 'race' wheels attached, an overall weight of around 7.5Kg, and an ultegra build with some 105 parts it doesn't seem to compare well.

string78

I looked at 2013 models and although there were some good deals to be had, like the Felt F3 with Di2 for £1620, I thought the Rose came in best with the overall package. A lot of the 2013 models are 10 Speed Ultegra (Which there is nothing wrong with, but have it on my current bike and wanted to move to 6800) and have pretty average wheels. The Rose wont need upgrading for a good while yet.

I had also looked at self building but price would have be near enough the same as what the Rose is coming in at.

Weston Flyer

string78 wrote:

I looked at 2013 models and although there were some good deals to be had, like the Felt F3 with Di2 for £1620, I thought the Rose came in best with the overall package. A lot of the 2013 models are 10 Speed Ultegra (Which there is nothing wrong with, but have it on my current bike and wanted to move to 6800) and have pretty average wheels. The Rose wont need upgrading for a good while yet.

I had also looked at self building but price would have be near enough the same as what the Rose is coming in at.

Yep that the same conclusion I keep coming to, you just can't escape the value they offer. Time to stop thinking about it, and just get on with ordering me thinks......

Doony

The CRS all the way, I was about to order one last week, but I managed to get an awesome deal on a 2013 Felt F3 Di2, had that not cropped up, I'd have already ordered the Rose, gorgeous looking bike, and can't find a bad word said about them.

Weston Flyer

Doony wrote:

The CRS all the way, I was about to order one last week, but I managed to get an awesome deal on a 2013 Felt F3 Di2, had that not cropped up, I'd have already ordered the Rose, gorgeous looking bike, and can't find a bad word said about them.

Cheers, is that the £1800 deal at Winstanley's? I admit that seems good value, not sure about the shimano rs61 wheel set though?

Doony

Weston Flyer wrote:

Doony wrote:

The CRS all the way, I was about to order one last week, but I managed to get an awesome deal on a 2013 Felt F3 Di2, had that not cropped up, I'd have already ordered the Rose, gorgeous looking bike, and can't find a bad word said about them.

Cheers, is that the £1800 deal at Winstanley's? I admit that seems good value, not sure about the shimano rs61 wheel set though?

I got mine from Tredz, paid £1620 for it, so I didn't mind the wheels, they will go on my old bike, have a pair of Zondas to replace them. Even at £1799 it's a great price, can always flog the stock wheels and replace.

Weston Flyer

Doony wrote:

Weston Flyer wrote:

Doony wrote:

The CRS all the way, I was about to order one last week, but I managed to get an awesome deal on a 2013 Felt F3 Di2, had that not cropped up, I'd have already ordered the Rose, gorgeous looking bike, and can't find a bad word said about them.

Cheers, is that the £1800 deal at Winstanley's? I admit that seems good value, not sure about the shimano rs61 wheel set though?

I got mine from Tredz, paid £1620 for it, so I didn't mind the wheels, they will go on my old bike, have a pair of Zondas to replace them. Even at £1799 it's a great price, can always flog the stock wheels and replace.

Cheers. That offer didn't last long, it's back up to £2k now at Tredz. Why are these decisions always so hard, this is supposed to be fun :?

string78

Weston Flyer wrote:

Doony wrote:

Weston Flyer wrote:

Doony wrote:

The CRS all the way, I was about to order one last week, but I managed to get an awesome deal on a 2013 Felt F3 Di2, had that not cropped up, I'd have already ordered the Rose, gorgeous looking bike, and can't find a bad word said about them.

Cheers, is that the £1800 deal at Winstanley's? I admit that seems good value, not sure about the shimano rs61 wheel set though?

I got mine from Tredz, paid £1620 for it, so I didn't mind the wheels, they will go on my old bike, have a pair of Zondas to replace them. Even at £1799 it's a great price, can always flog the stock wheels and replace.

Cheers. That offer didn't last long, it's back up to £2k now at Tredz. Why are these decisions always so hard, this is supposed to be fun :?

I know what you mean, I saw the offer after Doony posted it up at the weekend. IT nearly had me changing my mind especially with the amount of discount on offer, seemed too good of a deal for a £3.5k bike going for £1620. It comes with a double chainset rather than compact so that would have been a little additional cost for me to change.

Factoring in the components and parts when the bike is selling at £3.5k, is the frame really worth £1500 - 2000 more than the Rose? You can get the Di2 CRS for £2100 with the newer version and better wheels.

Doony

string78 wrote:

Weston Flyer wrote:

Doony wrote:

Weston Flyer wrote:

Doony wrote:

The CRS all the way, I was about to order one last week, but I managed to get an awesome deal on a 2013 Felt F3 Di2, had that not cropped up, I'd have already ordered the Rose, gorgeous looking bike, and can't find a bad word said about them.

Cheers, is that the £1800 deal at Winstanley's? I admit that seems good value, not sure about the shimano rs61 wheel set though?

I got mine from Tredz, paid £1620 for it, so I didn't mind the wheels, they will go on my old bike, have a pair of Zondas to replace them. Even at £1799 it's a great price, can always flog the stock wheels and replace.

Cheers. That offer didn't last long, it's back up to £2k now at Tredz. Why are these decisions always so hard, this is supposed to be fun :?

I know what you mean, I saw the offer after Doony posted it up at the weekend. IT nearly had me changing my mind especially with the amount of discount on offer, seemed too good of a deal for a £3.5k bike going for £1620. It comes with a double chainset rather than compact so that would have been a little additional cost for me to change.

Factoring in the components and parts when the bike is selling at £3.5k, is the frame really worth £1500 - 2000 more than the Rose? You can get the Di2 CRS for £2100 with the newer version and better wheels.

I think Tredz made a mistake, I had a 10% code, but just adding it to the basket knocked it down to £1799, plus the 10% off. Wasnt sure they were gonna honour it, but I picked it up yesterday.. and it's beautiful

Have the same issue with the double, but I will change it for a compact in the next week and Ebay the double.

antsmithmk

Weston Flyer wrote:

antsmithmk wrote:

Well she is set up and ready to roll... Prob be the club run on the Specialized on Sat however as it will need a shake down or two to get the saddle right etc.

In terms of the service, Rose are fantastic. You get a mail outlining when you are likely to get the bike based on a build date... I might not be the norm but mine was supposed to be built on the 21st of March and with me a week later....!!! Instead it's here today and I ordered less than 2 weeks ago. They are red hot! I changed both the saddle, wheels and bar tape in the bike spec section so it wasn't as if the bike was in stock.

That sounds like pretty much what I've figured I'd do with the changes, after all who wants that shiny bar tape?!
Good luck with first ride out!

SmoggySteve wrote:

If you want best bang for buck don't automatically assume that just because Rose/Canyon are cheaper because of their online sales only model they are the best deal. Chances are you pay their price. No discount and very small discount old stock. Wheras looking for shops that have say a 2013 model on sale that is a far better bike is very possible. So what if its not this years model. Most bikes barley change from year to year anyway. Seen bikes with full Sram red on for around 2k on sale.

Cheers. You're right, having an older model doesn't bother me, but I've not seen anything like the spec you mention for £2K. The best my LBS have come up with is a 2013 Trek Madone 5.2 for £1999, but with their basic 'race' wheels attached, an overall weight of around 7.5Kg, and an ultegra build with some 105 parts it doesn't seem to compare well.

Yes my LBS 's could not compete for spec, weight and cost. And yes I swapped out the shiny tape for Matt black... Likewise swapped the shiny black saddle to a selle Matt black with a thin green stripe down the middle

Weston Flyer

string78 wrote:

Weston Flyer wrote:

Doony wrote:

Weston Flyer wrote:

Doony wrote:

The CRS all the way, I was about to order one last week, but I managed to get an awesome deal on a 2013 Felt F3 Di2, had that not cropped up, I'd have already ordered the Rose, gorgeous looking bike, and can't find a bad word said about them.

Cheers, is that the £1800 deal at Winstanley's? I admit that seems good value, not sure about the shimano rs61 wheel set though?

I got mine from Tredz, paid £1620 for it, so I didn't mind the wheels, they will go on my old bike, have a pair of Zondas to replace them. Even at £1799 it's a great price, can always flog the stock wheels and replace.

Cheers. That offer didn't last long, it's back up to £2k now at Tredz. Why are these decisions always so hard, this is supposed to be fun :?

I know what you mean, I saw the offer after Doony posted it up at the weekend. IT nearly had me changing my mind especially with the amount of discount on offer, seemed too good of a deal for a £3.5k bike going for £1620. It comes with a double chainset rather than compact so that would have been a little additional cost for me to change.

Factoring in the components and parts when the bike is selling at £3.5k, is the frame really worth £1500 - 2000 more than the Rose? You can get the Di2 CRS for £2100 with the newer version and better wheels.

Very true, I guess we're all suckers for a good discount regardless of whether it represents actual value or just perceived! I don't think I can stretch to the Di2 on the CRS though, the Force 22 is the favourite at the moment.

Doony wrote:

string78 wrote:

Weston Flyer wrote:

Doony wrote:

Weston Flyer wrote:

Doony wrote:

The CRS all the way, I was about to order one last week, but I managed to get an awesome deal on a 2013 Felt F3 Di2, had that not cropped up, I'd have already ordered the Rose, gorgeous looking bike, and can't find a bad word said about them.

Cheers, is that the £1800 deal at Winstanley's? I admit that seems good value, not sure about the shimano rs61 wheel set though?

I got mine from Tredz, paid £1620 for it, so I didn't mind the wheels, they will go on my old bike, have a pair of Zondas to replace them. Even at £1799 it's a great price, can always flog the stock wheels and replace.

Cheers. That offer didn't last long, it's back up to £2k now at Tredz. Why are these decisions always so hard, this is supposed to be fun :?

I know what you mean, I saw the offer after Doony posted it up at the weekend. IT nearly had me changing my mind especially with the amount of discount on offer, seemed too good of a deal for a £3.5k bike going for £1620. It comes with a double chainset rather than compact so that would have been a little additional cost for me to change.

Factoring in the components and parts when the bike is selling at £3.5k, is the frame really worth £1500 - 2000 more than the Rose? You can get the Di2 CRS for £2100 with the newer version and better wheels.

I think Tredz made a mistake, I had a 10% code, but just adding it to the basket knocked it down to £1799, plus the 10% off. Wasnt sure they were gonna honour it, but I picked it up yesterday.. and it's beautiful

Have the same issue with the double, but I will change it for a compact in the next week and Ebay the double.

Certainly a lovely thing to behold, good luck with it, nice to be able to benefit from their error!

string78

Did you make a decision Weston?

Took delivery of my CRS 3000 and am more than pleased. I saw the black / grey and black / red colours at the London Bike Show but decided to go with Shiny White, definitely made the right choice. It's certainly a quick bike, looking forward to a good ride tomorrow with minimal wind to see what it can really do.

16 days from order to delivery, can't fault Rose one bit!

antsmithmk

Took mine out for 30km on Sunday.... Uphill out and headwind back.... Was pleasantly surprised to take only a fraction over an hour. 29km/hr solo is decent for me.... And the bike is rapid! Hopefully the rider will be one day.

cliffgibson

I took delivery of my CW-3000 about 4 weeks ago - really impressed with it, quality and finish is excellent and rides like a dream.

So far have done a few 10 mile rides to get the setup right, and did a 60 mile ride yesterday (about 1500m climbing) and found it no problem at all. I'll be doing 100+ mile sportives on it and the odd 10m TT.

I changed the bars (3T Ergonova Team carbon 31,8) and 3t stem and the Prologo Zero II Pas Ti 1.4 - all this was from the CW-3000 Ultegra 6800 model. Bike all in (with pedals) is 7.3kg.

Prior to deciding on the above I did a decent (25 mile) test ride on a 2013 Venge Expert - the Venge felt heavy and hard work in comparison.

Bunch of pics of the Rose over on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/73484597@N05/sets/72157642842909555/

Rodders30

I'm umming and arrring over the CW-3000 and the CGF-3000.

I'm also after a one bike for all. I don't race, but there is a 10mile TT near me which I go round.

I don't generally do long long rides, maybe 60milers, aiming for 18mph ave (17.7 is my best so far)
Thinking the CFG if more for 60-100mile rides. Though if I did a long ride on the CW, maybe a sportive, I don't think it will be that bad, the front isn't that low so I've read?

and I do love the look of the CW with aero wheels.

As for weight and hill climbs, my current bike is 10kg, so the CW or CGF is going to be lighter.

Rodders30

Cliff, what size frame do you have?

antsmithmk

I didnt like the placement of the rear brake caliper on the CGF. On British roads that will end up caked in crap every ride :-(

Rodders30

yea, that's another thing I don't like about the CGF

cliffgibson

Rodders30 wrote:

Cliff, what size frame do you have?

I went for the medium, with 100mm stem. I'm 6ft - inseam 86cm.

Did the Wiggle Spring Saddle Epic (100 miles) couple of weekends ago, was far more comfortable (and quicker) than last 100 mile sportive on Giant Defy 3 at the end of last year. It has taken about 6-10 rides to get saddle position, cleats and bar height right (order max spacers so you can adjust height!) but now feels just right.

Rodders30

Not sure on my inseam, but im 6'4, but I have a long torso and short legs. Have to get an inseam measurement. Current bike is 58cm with the saddle quite high.

Trying to arrange a demo on one for this week or next.

Glad to hear its comfy over 100 miles. Puts my issues with comfort to rest.