Are We Alone on This Great Island In Space?

mr_goo

Listened to Prof Brian Cox on Richard Bacon Show this afternoon.
He stated that new figures based on the Kepler Space Observatory findings, estimate that there are 20 Billion Earth like planets in the Milky Way. To clarify this, that is planets that are rock, with orbits that would give conditions for water and life. 20 Billion in our galaxy!
He continued to state that so far we have not heard any radio waves out there that would indicate that any of these are sustaining an advanced intelligence. Therefore the circumstance of our evolution and existence might be so unique that we could be the only advanced life form in the Milky Way. We could be quite special indeed, and yet.....

bianchimoon

if there was intelligence out there, would they have had to evolve down the same communiations path ie to give out radio waves to communicate over distance. Praps they use flags

arran77

Mr Goo wrote:

Listened to Prof Brian Cox on Richard Bacon Show this afternoon.
He stated that new figures based on the Kepler Space Observatory findings, estimate that there are 20 Billion Earth like planets in the Milky Way.

So there should be a decent one out there then!!

crumbschief

arran77 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Listened to Prof Brian Cox on Richard Bacon Show this afternoon.
He stated that new figures based on the Kepler Space Observatory findings, estimate that there are 20 Billion Earth like planets in the Milky Way.

So there should be a decent one out there then!!

Haha funny,more guessing though and trying to apply logic etc to something that is beyond understanding for now,it's a big playground.

orraloon

arran77 wrote:

So there should be a decent one out there then!!

This one is a decent one. Pity so many of us try to make such a pig's ear of it.

arran77

orraloon wrote:

arran77 wrote:

So there should be a decent one out there then!!

This one is a decent one. Pity so many of us try to make such a pig's ear of it.

Yes, that's probably nearer the truth :roll:

wishitwasallflat

If you were intelligent would you contact a bunch of primitive squabbling jumped up apes like us? FFS we still think its important what bit of this tiny insignificant planet we were born on let along being ready for interplanetary communication. Any intelligent species would avoid us like the plague until we grow up a fair bit.

thomthom

wishitwasallflat wrote:

If you were intelligent would you contact a bunch of primitive squabbling jumped up apes like us? FFS we still think its important what bit of this tiny insignificant planet we were born on let along being ready for interplanetary communication. Any intelligent species would avoid us like the plague until we grow up a fair bit.

This makes no sense.

RDW

ThomThom wrote:

wishitwasallflat wrote:

If you were intelligent would you contact a bunch of primitive squabbling jumped up apes like us? FFS we still think its important what bit of this tiny insignificant planet we were born on let along being ready for interplanetary communication. Any intelligent species would avoid us like the plague until we grow up a fair bit.

This makes no sense.

Think of it like this - why is it that nobody from the saner forums on Bikeradar visits The Cake Stop or The Bottom Bracket..?

Mikey23

Aah, I see

VTech

I would hazard a guess that there is life on every planet.
Not sure we fully understand the be all and end all of life though.

Garry H

VTech wrote:

I would hazard a guess that there is life on every planet.
Not sure we fully understand the be all and end all of life though.

You woul be wrong.

finchy

As far as our understanding of life goes, you need liquid water to enable the functions of life, so that would rule out Mercury, Venus and the gas giants (but not necessarily their satellites). You would also need some way of recycling carbon back into the atmosphere for surface life to exist, which means tectonic activity.

Sub-surface life on Mars is certainly a possibility (for comparison, life has been found living in solid rock at depths of up to 1,000 m on Earth).

VTech

Garry H wrote:

VTech wrote:

I would hazard a guess that there is life on every planet.
Not sure we fully understand the be all and end all of life though.

You woul be wrong.

The earth used to be flat my good man !

There is life and intelligent life.

sungod

observable universe is around 14 billion years old

heavy elements have been abundant for about 10 billion - needed for life as we know it

earth is about 4.5 billion

first life about 3.8 billion

big complicated things a few hundred million, enough cells to be intelligent as we know it, call it 4 billion for clever things to evolve and be able to make stuff with their tentacles, so they might have got started 6 billion years ago

we've been broadcasting for less than 200 years

high power rf transmitters are already going out of fashion - much moves to lower power digital, or copper/fibre - though there will be some biggies for a while yet

but our rf emissions are a tiny blip in time, radiated rf power falls with the square of distance, the nearest star is a long way away, there's approximately bugger all to detect

call it 300 years before we're mostly off air and using light, directed rf and low power spread spectrum

now go back to the definition that the researchers used for earth like, it's basically that there's a lump of stuff around roughly the right kind of star at roughly the right distance for water to be liquid

there may be no water, or air, or whatever complex life needs to evolve, so the 20 billion could be a whole lot smaller (or bigger)

if that's the pattern of things, it's not at all surprising that we haven't noticed anyone else out there

the universe could be teeming with all manner of intelligent things, but unless there really is a way for us/them to manage faster than light travel over interstellar distances, i wouldn't be surprised if we never find out

so the best approach is be nice to each other

VTech

sungod wrote:

observable universe is around 14 billion years old

heavy elements have been abundant for about 10 billion - needed for life as we know it

earth is about 4.5 billion

first life about 3.8 billion

big complicated things a few hundred million, enough cells to be intelligent as we know it, call it 4 billion for clever things to evolve and be able to make stuff with their tentacles, so they might have got started 6 billion years ago

we've been broadcasting for less than 200 years

high power rf transmitters are already going out of fashion - much moves to lower power digital, or copper/fibre - though there will be some biggies for a while yet

but our rf emissions are a tiny blip in time, radiated rf power falls with the square of distance, the nearest star is a long way away, there's approximately bugger all to detect

call it 300 years before we're mostly off air and using light, directed rf and low power spread spectrum

now go back to the definition that the researchers used for earth like, it's basically that there's a lump of stuff around roughly the right kind of star at roughly the right distance for water to be liquid

there may be no water, or air, or whatever complex life needs to evolve, so the 20 billion could be a whole lot smaller (or bigger)

if that's the pattern of things, it's not at all surprising that we haven't noticed anyone else out there

the universe could be teeming with all manner of intelligent things, but unless there really is a way for us/them to manage faster than light travel over interstellar distances, i wouldn't be surprised if we never find out

so the best approach is be nice to each other

If you used that statement at a casting for the BBC you would be the next captain of the SS Enterprise.

sungod

trouble is they'd ask me a stupid question, and then i'd turn into malcolm tucker (from the thick of it)

RideOnTime

It doesn't surprise me that the Milky Way cannot sustain life.
Look at our own paradigms.

shockedsoshocked

Isn't there a mathematical equation out there, that basically states as our Sun is relatively new in the context of the Universe, intelligent life, which potentially could be millennia ahead of us, would already have contacted us by now.

bianchimoon

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Isn't there a mathematical equation out there, that basically states as our Sun is relatively new in the context of the Universe, intelligent life, which potentially could be millennia ahead of us, would already have contacted us by now.

perhaps too late for them, they may have been the forerunner to the human model and wiped themselves out?

shockedsoshocked

bianchimoon wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Isn't there a mathematical equation out there, that basically states as our Sun is relatively new in the context of the Universe, intelligent life, which potentially could be millennia ahead of us, would already have contacted us by now.

perhaps too late for them, they may have been the forerunner to the human model and wiped themselves out?

Maybe a bit of an Easter Island situation. Complete consumption of natural resources and the interstellar travel never works out?

finchy

sungod wrote:

the universe could be teeming with all manner of intelligent things, but unless there really is a way for us/them to manage faster than light travel over interstellar distances, i wouldn't be surprised if we never find out

There are 42 stars within 15 light years of Earth. So if we get up to half light speed, we could get to any of them and start transmitting back to Earth within 30 years.

markhewitt1978

20 billion just in our galaxy? Amazing. Seems like a very high number. Of course just because there is an earth like planet, even with liquid water, doesn't mean life will have evolved, and even then doesn't mean it won't have evolved past single celled organisms (isn't it that 95% of the time of life on earth that's all there was?) and then it's a long way to intelligent life, and even further to life with technology and even bigger leap to assume their technology mirrors our own.

So out of those 20 billion you might quickly find the number of civilisations like our own rapidly reduces. But there's no reason to suspect even if there are thousands of civilisations out there that we would be able to detect them. After all the distances involved are just so stupidly vast.

seanoconn

johnfinch wrote:

sungod wrote:

the universe could be teeming with all manner of intelligent things, but unless there really is a way for us/them to manage faster than light travel over interstellar distances, i wouldn't be surprised if we never find out

There are 42 stars within 15 light years of Earth. So if we get up to half light speed, we could get to any of them and start transmitting back to Earth within 30 years.

So once we get up to 93,000 mi/second, we're in business? Cool, I'll start packing my nick nacks

bianchimoon

seanoconn wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

sungod wrote:

the universe could be teeming with all manner of intelligent things, but unless there really is a way for us/them to manage faster than light travel over interstellar distances, i wouldn't be surprised if we never find out

There are 42 stars within 15 light years of Earth. So if we get up to half light speed, we could get to any of them and start transmitting back to Earth within 30 years.

So once we get up to 93,000 mi/second, we're in business? Cool, I'll start packing my nick nacks

just another 84,000 mi/s to improve on then, keep some of your nick nacks out just in case it doesn't happen in the next few days

Velonutter

I firmly believe that intelligent life exists in our Galaxy and beyond, we would be stupid and arrogant to think that out of all the billions of stars that we are the only life form.

There is almost certainly less intelligent life out there as well.

Perhaps the distance between life forms is deliberate until Humans have learnt to appreciate life that exists on our own planet before we gain the necessary skills to travel and infiltrate other living things lives!

markhewitt1978

sungod wrote:

observable universe is around 14 billion years old
heavy elements have been abundant for about 10 billion - needed for life as we know it
earth is about 4.5 billion
first life about 3.8 billion

Does anyone else think that, given the universe is 14 billion years old and the earth has been around for about a third of that, that overall the universe is still quite young, and life has evolved quite soon? It could be that we are one of the first intelligent civilisations to have evolved, fast forward another 100 billion and there will be one in every star system?

RDW

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Isn't there a mathematical equation out there, that basically states as our Sun is relatively new in the context of the Universe, intelligent life, which potentially could be millennia ahead of us, would already have contacted us by now.

https://xkcd.com/384/

sungod

johnfinch wrote:

sungod wrote:

the universe could be teeming with all manner of intelligent things, but unless there really is a way for us/them to manage faster than light travel over interstellar distances, i wouldn't be surprised if we never find out

There are 42 stars within 15 light years of Earth. So if we get up to half light speed, we could get to any of them and start transmitting back to Earth within 30 years.

heh heh

but it could be the only way we'll ever prove there's life around other stars

markhewitt1978

sungod wrote:

but it could be the only way we'll ever prove there's life around other stars

Given the advances in imaging technology and analysis in recent years I doubt it. We can now determine the content of the atmosphere of planets orbiting distant stars. Just a few years ago we didn't know for certain that there were any planets around other stars!

sungod

if they pump out enough emr at identifiably 'artificial' wavelengths, or spew enough similarly recognisable crud into their atmosphere, or have a lovely chlorophyll absorption signature, that'd certainly be possible

imho it's a far more likely way to infer probable life on other planets than picking up radio waves

but my gripe is more about the dumbed down media habit of resorting to meaningless waffle with plenty of graphics, rather than the nitty gritty of what it means in practice or is likely/possible given our current understanding

there're endless programmes on complex/intractable issues, some of which may attempt real exploration, but usually only if the subject is political or sociological, sometimes biological, but not if it's physics/related

i remember a long time ago the bbc had programmes about things like the w vector boson that attempted to at least scratch the surface, these days it's just wishy washy trash, often regurgitated at that, i.e. same trash, new graphics

or maybe this'll bear fruit, or at least slime...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/05 ... find_life/

...then we can relax, and ask the ones with imaginary friends for their position on it, should be entertaining