GT winners- exception to rule

specialgueststar

Just having a potter around the interweb - came across Roger Walkowiak 1956 Tour de France winner. He finished 4 times 75th 57th 47th and 1st! But never won a stage.

Which GT victors seem to be the exception rather than the rule - is it him?




Giro
DNE DNE DNE DNE DNE DNE DNE DNE
Stages won — — — — — — — —
Mountains classification — — — — — — — —
Points classification N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

Tour
57 DNE 47 DNE DNF-11 1 DNF-18 75
Stages won 0 — 0 — 0 0 0 0
Mountains classification NR — NR — NR 6 NR NR
Points classification N/A N/A NR — NR 16 NR NR

Vuelta
N/A N/A N/A DNE DNE DNF 15 DNE
Stages won — — 1 1 —
Mountains classification N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Points classification N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

takethehighroad

Oscar Pereiro finished 10th three times, 11th in the Giro, and won the Tour once

Grand Tour 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
Giro 11 - - - - - - -
Tour - - 10 10 1* 10 DNF DNF
Vuelta 30 17 - 25 49 DNF - -

greasedscotsman

Didn't Pereiro win two stages of the Tour, both in '05? One into Pau and the other behind George Hincapie to Saint Lary Soulon!

Paul 8v

They weren't happy about it, I believe the expression "à la Walko" is basically a way of saying you got something you didn't deserve, not sure if the French still use it.

Paulie W

Walkowiak took the lead after a large breakaway of unrecognised riders took 18+ minutes on the peloton and I could kind of see how the 'lucky' tag would stick if the initial breakaway had proved decisive. But he lost the yellow jersey as this lead was eroded over a number of stages only to regain it and hold on to Paris by riding pretty strongly.

takethehighroad

Maybe that's why I put him together with Pereiro, wasn't something made of it being fifty years later and he won it a la Walko?

knedlicky

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

Maybe that's why I put him together with Pereiro, wasn't something made of it being fifty years later and he won it a la Walko?

Pereiro’s TdF victory may have came about from a happy coicidence of a DQ and from him having been in a useful break. But in the end the other contenders made a mistake in letting him gain nearly 30 mins (after all, by the time it occurred, he was ersatz team leader, Valverde having dropped out early on with a collarbone break - they shouldn't have been so unaware).
And afterwards they knew what they then had to try and (legally) do to catch him (or should have done beforehand to out-distance him). Such is all part of stage races, so full merit to his victory.

I was actually glad Pereiro got a TdF victory, because I think if he hadn’t have had to ride for Botero in 2005, he might have at least got a podium placing, perhaps even won as outsider - he was strong enough. Similarly, without a team role in 2004, I think he would have done better than 10th.
I know there’ve been suspicions about him because of Salbutemol, but that brings really nothing apart from comfort (I know as I need it). And anyone who does cyclo-cross, like Pereiro did, automatically goes up in my judgement.

I think he probably had the potential to do better but lacked the ambition and decisiveness - thus why given the chance he's now turned to his real love - football.

knedlicky

Not sure what you mean with your thread title:

GT winners who didn’t win a stage in their victory year of that particular GT?
GT winners who never won a stage in that particular GT?r
GT winners who never won a stage in any GT?

If the former, I imagine there are a couple; if the latter, well you’ve mentioned Walkowiak’s Vuelta stage wins; if the middle option, I don’t know.


As for Walkowiak, sure, that 18 mins stage gain helped him along the way to victory but there’s a lot more to his story than the fact he put himself in a good position by means of the time he gained on that one stage.

Firstly, before the Tour began, Walko was judged by many (Louison Bobet included) to be good enough to warrant a place in the team France. But Walko wasn’t chosen first time around (allegations of favouritism existing) and, when a spare place became available after Bobet dropped out at short notice, it went instead to Bauvin from the team Nord-Est.
Walko then took Bauvin’s place in the regional team, so there was immediately a rivalry between the pair of them, about who best warranted being called into the ‘superior’ team France.

At the same time, the DS of the Nord-Est team (Ducazeaux) resented having his ‘star player’ (Bauvin) being taken from his team to join team France shortly before the Tour start. So there was also a team rivalry (team Nord-Est against team France).

In the stage with the eventual 18 min gain, Walko’s attack came about because, after about 95 km, Bauvin had gone ahead in a break, and Walko and a team-mate launched a counter-attack as part of Walko’s rivalry with Bauvin, taking 30 km to catch Bauvin, and then the enlarged break (with them both) continuing to steam ahead.
The rest of team France let the Walko/Bauvin break go, because they were more concerned with protecting the-then yellow jersey Darrigade from main competitors Charly Gaul and Stan Ockers. So Walko took yellow.

Afterwards, Walko’s DS, recognising that Walko was in the form to achieve a podium place, but at the same time thinking that the Nord-Est team wasn’t overall strong enough to defend yellow for 2 weeks, suggested to Walko he should first lose the yellow jersey and then, during the last week in the Alps, attack to try and regain it. It was thus agreed Walko would keep yellow for until Bordeaux, so that his wife (who was to meet him at the finish there) could see him appear in yellow, and then he would purposely lose it.
Which is what happened, in the Pyrenees Walko just ensuring he didn’t lose significant time to the main contenders.

In the Alps, Walko wasn’t the strongest but when he fell a little behind, he gained back lost ground on the descents, and so eventually took the yellow jersey again. By then his personal rival Bauvin was second overall.
A few stages before the end, in the Massif Central, when Walko punctured, Bauvin launched an attack (accompanied by Gaul and Bahamontes) to try and take the yellow. The personal rivalry re-asserted itself, and Walko reduced the gap on the main climb and closed it completely on the descent.
His lead over Bauvin was reduced by 2/3 in the TT (next-but-one-to-last stage), but Walko was able to ride in yellow to the finish.


I've no knowledge of the accuracy of the above, I'm just relating what I've found out, but clearly, it wasn't just a simple story of a TdF victory based on a large lead in one stage.

It’s also worth noting, without that 18 mins gain stage, Bauvin wouldn’t have finished second either.


About 15 years ago, I saw a TV documentary in which Walkowiak was briefly interviewed – he still seemed very bitter that the French public hadn’t yet appreciated his Tour win, despite by then quite positive statements on his behalf from both Goddet and Hinault.
I hope things have since changed for him

Paul 8v

An interview with him here but I can't see how old it is: http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured- ... amentation

MartinGT

I think the OP means.

How many people have won without actually winning a stage.

specialgueststar

MartinGT wrote:

I think the OP means.

How many people have won without actually winning a stage.

nearly - I'm not even sure what I meant but it was more on the lines of coming from nowhere ie highest Tour place had been 47th before his overall win. The non stages just add to the fact

TheBigBean

knedlicky wrote:

Pereiro’s TdF victory may have came about from a happy coicidence of a DQ and from him having been in a useful break. But in the end the other contenders made a mistake in letting him gain nearly 30 mins (after all, by the time it occurred, he was ersatz team leader, Valverde having dropped out early on with a collarbone break - they shouldn't have been so unaware).
And afterwards they knew what they then had to try and (legally) do to catch him (or should have done beforehand to out-distance him). Such is all part of stage races, so full merit to his victory.

I was rather annoyed about the whole thing as I had backed Kloden at very healthy odds. I still haven't forgiven Kloden.

MartinGT

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

MartinGT wrote:

I think the OP means.

How many people have won without actually winning a stage.

nearly - I'm not even sure what I meant but it was more on the lines of coming from nowhere ie highest Tour place had been 47th before his overall win. The non stages just add to the fact

Chris Froome?
Bradley Wiggins?

Richmond Racer

MartinGT wrote:

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

MartinGT wrote:

I think the OP means.

How many people have won without actually winning a stage.

nearly - I'm not even sure what I meant but it was more on the lines of coming from nowhere ie highest Tour place had been 47th before his overall win. The non stages just add to the fact

Chris Froome?
Bradley Wiggins?

Ok. So let's try and explain this as clearly as possible.

Before his Tour win, Wiggins had a Tour 3rd place following annulment of Lance's results.

Before his Tour win, Froome had a Tour runner-up result.

Both somewhat different from the best-placing-of-47th-before-the-win (to use SGS's example), as I'm sure even you will have to agree.

MartinGT

So you think this isnt far off the OP?

Froome
Giro
2008 - DNC
2009 - 34th
2010 - DSQ
2011 - DNC
2012 - DNC
2013 - DNC

Tour
2008 - 83rd
2009 - DNC
2010 - DNC
2011 - DNC
2012 - 2 - WELL HELLO!!!!!!
2013 - 1 - HELLO AGAIN!

Vuelta
2008 - DNC
2009 - DNC
2010 - DNC
2011 - 2 - WELL HELLO!!!!!!
2012 - 4th
2013 - 4th

Brad Wiggins
Giro
2008 - 134th
2009 - 69th
2010 - 40th
2011 - DNC
2012 - DNC
2013 - DNF

Tour
2008 - DNC
2009 - 3rd
2010 - 23rd
2011 - DNF
2012 - 1
2013 - DNC

Vuelta
2008 - DNC
2009 - DNC
2010 - DNC
2011 - 3
2012 - DNC
2013 - DNC

Richmond Racer

No. You are shaping this to suit the argument you personally want to have.

As per SGS's post above your first one:

'nearly - I'm not even sure what I meant but it was more on the lines of coming from nowhere ie highest Tour place had been 47th before his overall win. The non stages just add to the fact'

So, again. Wiggins highest Tour placing before his win, was 3rd. Froome's higest Tour placing before his win, was 2nd.

RichN95.

MartinGT wrote:

So you think this isnt far off the OP?

One has been top four in Grand Tours four times and the other three times. Both are still going. So hardly one hit wonders. If you are trying to point out that neither had results before they had results then congratulations, you win idiot of the week

mike6

MartinGT wrote:

So you think this isnt far off the OP?

Froome
Giro
2008 - DNC
2009 - 34th
2010 - DSQ
2011 - DNC
2012 - DNC
2013 - DNC

Tour
2008 - 83rd
2009 - DNC
2010 - DNC
2011 - DNC
2012 - 2 - WELL HELLO!!!!!!
2013 - 1 - HELLO AGAIN!

Vuelta
2008 - DNC
2009 - DNC
2010 - DNC
2011 - 2 - WELL HELLO!!!!!!
2012 - 4th
2013 - 4th

Brad Wiggins
Giro
2008 - 134th
2009 - 69th
2010 - 40th
2011 - DNC
2012 - DNC
2013 - DNF

Tour
2008 - DNC
2009 - 3rd
2010 - 23rd
2011 - DNF
2012 - 1
2013 - DNC

Vuelta
2008 - DNC
2009 - DNC
2010 - DNC
2011 - 3
2012 - DNC
2013 - DNC

So....what you are saying is, he was in a crap team, didnt train particularly hard and didn't do much. Moved to a top team and between 2011 and 2013 improved from 2nd in a poor Vuelta, to 2nd in the Tour the following year, to Tour winner the year after?

WELL HELLO.

MartinGT

Ok, apologies in getting it incorrect.

FWIW I didnt want to take it down the rayjay channel.

MartinGT

mike6 wrote:

MartinGT wrote:

So you think this isnt far off the OP?
blurb

So....what you are saying is, he was in a crap team, didnt train particularly hard and didn't do much. Moved to a top team and between 2011 and 2013 improved from 2nd in a poor Vuelta, to 2nd in the Tour the following year, to Tour winner the year after?

WELL HELLO.

Where did I say that?

I misread the OP thats all.

WELL GOODBYE

salsiccia1

MartinGT wrote:

Ok, apologies in getting it incorrect.

FWIW I didnt want to take it down the rayjay channel.

:shock: I do hope that's not a euphamism

Richmond Racer

Salsiccia1 wrote:

MartinGT wrote:

Ok, apologies in getting it incorrect.

FWIW I didnt want to take it down the rayjay channel.

:shock: I do hope that's not a euphamism

I've just been a little bit sick

MartinGT

Salsiccia1 wrote:

MartinGT wrote:

Ok, apologies in getting it incorrect.

FWIW I didnt want to take it down the rayjay channel.

:shock: I do hope that's not a euphamism

t4tomo

SpecialGuestStar wrote:

MartinGT wrote:

I think the OP means.

How many people have won without actually winning a stage.

nearly - I'm not even sure what I meant but it was more on the lines of coming from nowhere ie highest Tour place had been 47th before his overall win. The non stages just add to the fact

Lance Armstrong.

MartinGT

He was 4th in the Vuelta durrrrrrrr

t4tomo

MartinGT wrote:

He was 4th in the Vuelta durrrrrrrr

Ok so you missed the .

His Vuelta was post cancer anyway. The point I was making that pre cancer he won buttons at the grand tours (2 TdF stages), nowhere in the GC and post cancer / drug taking he became a world beater.

MartinGT

t4tomo wrote:

MartinGT wrote:

He was 4th in the Vuelta durrrrrrrr

Ok so you missed the .

His Vuelta was post cancer anyway. The point I was making that pre cancer he won buttons at the grand tours (2 TdF stages), nowhere in the GC and post cancer / drug taking he became a world beater.

My lips are sealed