Derailleur Cage

ugo.santalucia

I run a Shimagnolo mix up and currently have a double (49 x 39) chainset and a 12-15 9 speed cassette, short cage derailleur.
I was warming up to the idea of an 11-32 9 speed MTB cassette, but I suppose I need a medium cage derailleur or all the way to the long cage one? And a new, longer chain of course...

Medium or long?

What If I fitted a 46x 39 chanset? Would I still need a long/medium derailleur or in that case I can get away with my short cage?

arthur_scrimshaw

A 105 GS medium cge rd is rated to 32t and should cope with the chainset easily.
edit, I don't think a short cage would cope with a 32, I'm running a 30 with a short cage even though the Shimano spec sheet recommends a Max of 28.

ugo.santalucia

RD needs to be Campagnolo... so medium cage seems the way?

bompington

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I run a Shimagnolo mix up and currently have a double (49 x 39) chainset and a 12-15 9 speed cassette

I know people like close ratios but that's really impressive! Is it something like 12, 12¼, 12½, 12¾, 13, 13½, 14, 14½, 15?

ugo.santalucia

bompington wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I run a Shimagnolo mix up and currently have a double (49 x 39) chainset and a 12-15 9 speed cassette

I know people like close ratios but that's really impressive! Is it something like 12, 12¼, 12½, 12¾, 13, 13½, 14, 14½, 15?

Alright... obviously I mean 12-25

ugo.santalucia

49x 39 front and 11-32 rear... medium or long cage? Anyone?

Sprool

49 front + 32 rear has to be a long cage. My new machine has compact 50/34 front and 11-32 cassette (shimano 105) and that's long cage derailleur.

mercia_man

Chainring difference on your bike is 10. Small cassette cog to big cassette cog difference is 21. Add them together, it's 31. I've used Veloce medium cage RD with a triple 46/36/24 - 22 difference - and 13-28 cassette - 15 difference. Add them together, it's 37.

So on that calculation, it would seem a medium cage is OK for you, ugo.

majormantra

In terms of chain capacity, your setup is:

32-11+49-39= 31 teeth.

That's within range for a modern short cage mech according to Campag, who specify a max capacity of 32t:

http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/do ... _10_12.pdf

Older short cage mechs had a capacity of 30t, but you might well get away with 31.

The bigger issue is the maximum sprocket size, which is not directly related to the cage length. No Campag road mech is designed to take a 32t sprocket - the new ones are 30t max and the old ones were supposed to be 27t, although many people (including me) went as high as 29t without major problems. I doubt 32t would work with an older mech, but it might well work with a newer (e.g. Veloce) one.

Either way, a short or medium cage should suffice.

majormantra

Sort of beaten to it there...

majormantra

Or... buy a GS Shimano mech and a #2 Shiftmate. That way you know the mech will clear the 32t sprocket.

ugo.santalucia

Thanks...

Not another Shiftmate... I've already got the no. 1 which is what I am using ....

So if I get a new Veloce medium 9I've got an old Daytona) has it got any issue with 9 speed cassettes? I seem to recall the geometry 8 to 10 speed is pretty much unchanged, but this is advertised as being 11 s geometry? Will it work OK ish... with 9?

mercia_man

As far as I know, new Veloce medium will work fine with nine speed. Just done a quick google to confirm my belief and it would appear others have had no probs using 11 speed RD with 10 speed cassette and levers. So guess same would apply to nine speed cassette.

majormantra

There's a lot of conflicting information on this topic out there and I don't really know better than anyone else.

You're running 10 speed shifters with a Shiftmate and a 9 speed Shimano cassette, correct?

My head hurts.

ugo.santalucia

Thanks Mercia man,

Nope, I am using 9 speed campag Ergos on 9 speed Shimano cassette with 9 speed Campag derailleur... it's the classic JTek no. 1 scenario

majormantra

I see. Although actually, I don't think that changes anything.

ugo.santalucia

Probably not...

I take Mercia Man is also into Frankenstein Shimagnolo bikes and MajorMantra will be shortly?

majormantra

Honestly, life is too short.

ugo.santalucia

MajorMantra wrote:

Honestly, life is too short.

It's more complicated ... when you have a fully matching groupset, you have expectations of perfection, that at some point will be deluded... hence the upgrade hunger and the reason half of these Workshop threads exist...
When you build a Frankenstein you are normally satisfied that it works and forget about those little details... as you can excuse yourself and people around you will marvel that your creation actually works!

Basically you live longer and happier with a Shimagnolo and that's that!

But thanks, I have learnt a lot in this thread

mercia_man

I'm currently on full Campag nine and 10 speed set-ups on both my tourer and road bike, although I used to run my tourer in the 90s on the original Mirage eight speed levers and mechs with a screw-on seven speed Sachs freewheel (same spacing as Campag eight speed and Shimano seven speed). Over the years I have pushed the gearing on my tourer well over the official Campag capacities.

My Bike Friday has a Sachs/SRAM three speed hub gear worked by a Shimano RSX STI left lever while the right lever (until it broke) worked a seven speed cassette attached to the three speed hub - giving me a completely usable 21 speed system with a single chain wheel. I am now using a Dura Ace nine speed bar end lever (taken off my wife's bike when the indexing broke) on friction setting to work the cassette.

Unfortunately, for people who like experimenting with Frankenstein systems, both Campag and Shimano are making things more difficult. Although I do like the way that 11 speed cassette spacings are now standardised.

rafletcher

ugo.santalucia wrote:

49x 39 front and 11-32 rear... medium or long cage? Anyone?

I thought the limitation on max rear sprocket was 30T for all campag mechs of that vintage (weel as specified by Campag - though I'm told a Chorus 11 will work with a 32T sprocket - just as long as you don't run big-big!). The short/medium/long cage cope with bigger differences at the front - so a long cage with a triple as there is more slack to take up between 52 and 30 at the front... so a medium and a bit of care would be my guess, as you only have a 10T difference at the front - in fact even a short cage should do that.

drlodge

Just my hunch, medium cage RD should work OK.

I too have a "Shimergo" setup - Veloce 10sp shifters, Dura Ace RD with 7 speed Dura-Ace hub/Uniglide cassette with sprockets taken from a 9 speed MTB cassette. Oh and a 9 speed chain. Works perfectly.

ugo.santalucia

Right, played it safe and ordered a Veloce short cage mech and an 11-30 HG 50 cassette...

g00se

Sounds like the best bet - provided the ergos cable pull works OK.

The chain capacity on the old 9 speed mech would probably have worked - the campag-given capacity being a little conservative. The sprocket size would have been the issue.

I've done something similar with an early short cage 10-speed for a few hilly rides where I swapped in a 29 on the back. The capacity was over the limit (50-34 compact and 29-13 Miche on the back) and the max rear sprocket of the older setup was exceeded (officially it was 26 or 27 for that age?) but it seemed to work fine.

However, Graeme (Graham - ? - sorry) from Velotech said that they've seen a few 9 and early 10-speed over-stretched mech springs fail with such setups.

I was happy to run with it as I only use the 29 as a very occasional bailout. I'm off to the alps in June and I wouldn't use that now - an excuse to buy something new

ugo.santalucia

I found that a 27 T was already a bit of a stretch... but I will try before fitting the new derailleur and if it works fine, I'll just send the derailleur back

utgaardaolle

I have 65-53 and 11-32 on a medium Cage. 20 inch wheels, but the gears are fine.

ugo.santalucia

Job done... 11-30 HG 50 cassette and new Veloce short cage mech... flawless shifting with the JTek 1

... and lawn mowed...

majormantra

I like happy endings.