Omloop Het Nieuwsblad armchair DS poll *spoiler*
No_Ta_Doctor
Posts: 14,651
Some interesting tactics and "race radio, does it change things?" discussion on the Omloop spoiler thread. So what would your armchair DS advice to Stannard have been in the closing kms?
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I really think - from a tactical point of view - that anything else but to tell Stannard to suck every bar of air out of that rear wheel is a no brainer. It's the perfect excuse for both Sky riders to do 'nothing'. Stannard sits with a rider who is a far better sprinter than him, they both know that so GVA has every reason to keep the finale for only the two of them - and especially with a pure sprinter behind.
What Stannard did, is what Fabian has been ridiculed with over and over again for doing. And Stannard even had a perfect excuse of not doing this.
Ian was extremely lucky to win that sprint. GVA was too confident and didn't pay attention when it mattered the most. He was, as expected, faster than Stannard when the actual sprint unfolded.0 -
ThomThom wrote:I really think - from a tactical point of view - that anything else but to tell Stannard to suck every bar of air out of that rear wheel is a no brainer. It's the perfect excuse for both Sky riders to do 'nothing'. Stannard sits with a rider who is a far better sprinter than him, they both know that so GVA has every reason to keep the finale for only the two of them - and especially with a pure sprinter behind.
What Stannard did, is what Fabian has been ridiculed with over and over again for doing.
But if Stannard had sucked GvA's wheel to death and then by some miracle bested him in a sprint because the others hadn't got back, then he'd be ridiculed for doing a Gerrans/Valverde. I was shouting at the TV telling Stannard not to work, but I guess he felt otherwise...Correlation is not causation.0 -
ThomThom wrote:I really think - from a tactical point of view - that anything else but to tell Stannard to suck every bar of air out of that rear wheel is a no brainer. It's the perfect excuse for both Sky riders to do 'nothing'. Stannard sits with a rider who is a far better sprinter than him, they both know that so GVA has every reason to keep the finale for only the two of them - and especially with a pure sprinter behind.
What Stannard did, is what Fabian has been ridiculed with over and over again for doing.
Pretty much option two, though you're reckoning on Avermaert being able to keep the chasing three off by himself. At one point the gap was down to ten seconds, so it would have been a big ask.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Above The Cows wrote:ThomThom wrote:I really think - from a tactical point of view - that anything else but to tell Stannard to suck every bar of air out of that rear wheel is a no brainer. It's the perfect excuse for both Sky riders to do 'nothing'. Stannard sits with a rider who is a far better sprinter than him, they both know that so GVA has every reason to keep the finale for only the two of them - and especially with a pure sprinter behind.
What Stannard did, is what Fabian has been ridiculed with over and over again for doing.
But if Stannard had sucked GvA's wheel to death and then by some miracle bested him in a sprint because the others hadn't got back, then he'd be ridiculed for doing a Gerrans/Valverde. I was shouting at the TV telling Stannard not to work, but I guess he felt otherwise...
No, he wouldn't. Since Hagen was behind even the most daft cycling 'fan' would undestand why Stannard had every reason to wheelsuck. (I hate that word).0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:ThomThom wrote:I really think - from a tactical point of view - that anything else but to tell Stannard to suck every bar of air out of that rear wheel is a no brainer. It's the perfect excuse for both Sky riders to do 'nothing'. Stannard sits with a rider who is a far better sprinter than him, they both know that so GVA has every reason to keep the finale for only the two of them - and especially with a pure sprinter behind.
What Stannard did, is what Fabian has been ridiculed with over and over again for doing.
Pretty much option two, though you're reckoning on Avermaert being able to keep the chasing three off by himself. At one point the gap was down to ten seconds, so it would have been a big ask.
I went for 'other' as the having one of only two riders in front must be plan A. Plan B would be to get Hagen up. I don't see how it's a problem to get 2 (not 3) knackered riders up because GVA couldn't keep a decent pace - the chances that Hagen would beat any of the other 3 riders are better than Stannard winning the sprint over GVA. That's not a bad plan B, why not take advantage of that and even out the odds between Stannard and GVA?0 -
ThomThom wrote:Above The Cows wrote:ThomThom wrote:I really think - from a tactical point of view - that anything else but to tell Stannard to suck every bar of air out of that rear wheel is a no brainer. It's the perfect excuse for both Sky riders to do 'nothing'. Stannard sits with a rider who is a far better sprinter than him, they both know that so GVA has every reason to keep the finale for only the two of them - and especially with a pure sprinter behind.
What Stannard did, is what Fabian has been ridiculed with over and over again for doing.
But if Stannard had sucked GvA's wheel to death and then by some miracle bested him in a sprint because the others hadn't got back, then he'd be ridiculed for doing a Gerrans/Valverde. I was shouting at the TV telling Stannard not to work, but I guess he felt otherwise...
No, he wouldn't. Since Hagen was behind even the most daft cycling 'fan' would undestand why Stannard had every reason to wheelsuck. (I hate that word).
You have more faith in human kind than I.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Above The Cows wrote:ThomThom wrote:Above The Cows wrote:ThomThom wrote:I really think - from a tactical point of view - that anything else but to tell Stannard to suck every bar of air out of that rear wheel is a no brainer. It's the perfect excuse for both Sky riders to do 'nothing'. Stannard sits with a rider who is a far better sprinter than him, they both know that so GVA has every reason to keep the finale for only the two of them - and especially with a pure sprinter behind.
What Stannard did, is what Fabian has been ridiculed with over and over again for doing.
But if Stannard had sucked GvA's wheel to death and then by some miracle bested him in a sprint because the others hadn't got back, then he'd be ridiculed for doing a Gerrans/Valverde. I was shouting at the TV telling Stannard not to work, but I guess he felt otherwise...
No, he wouldn't. Since Hagen was behind even the most daft cycling 'fan' would undestand why Stannard had every reason to wheelsuck. (I hate that word).
You have more faith in human kind than I.
I'm not using Cyclingnews forum anymore. I think that might have something to with it.0 -
ThomThom wrote:Above The Cows wrote:ThomThom wrote:Above The Cows wrote:ThomThom wrote:I really think - from a tactical point of view - that anything else but to tell Stannard to suck every bar of air out of that rear wheel is a no brainer. It's the perfect excuse for both Sky riders to do 'nothing'. Stannard sits with a rider who is a far better sprinter than him, they both know that so GVA has every reason to keep the finale for only the two of them - and especially with a pure sprinter behind.
What Stannard did, is what Fabian has been ridiculed with over and over again for doing.
But if Stannard had sucked GvA's wheel to death and then by some miracle bested him in a sprint because the others hadn't got back, then he'd be ridiculed for doing a Gerrans/Valverde. I was shouting at the TV telling Stannard not to work, but I guess he felt otherwise...
No, he wouldn't. Since Hagen was behind even the most daft cycling 'fan' would undestand why Stannard had every reason to wheelsuck. (I hate that word).
You have more faith in human kind than I.
I'm not using Cyclingnews forum anymore. I think that might have something to with it.
Correlation is not causation.0 -
Stannard would have had to be super strong to wait for EBH - thereby giving GVA a 10 second ish head start and then tow EBH+passenger back up to GVA again.
Tepstra and Sep would have just sat up.
No?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:Stannard would have had to be super strong to wait for EBH - thereby giving GVA a 10 second ish head start and then tow EBH+passenger back up to GVA again.
Tepstra and Sep would have just sat up.
No?
I don't get this?0 -
Hmm. Maybe I'm taking the suggestion that Stannard 'wait' for EBH a bit too literally.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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And by doing so you basically tell Stannard that you don't think he's good enough and can't have his own chances. So you end up with a rider who feels unmotivated, undervalued, possibly resentful and probably considering his future at the team. All so EBH can have a chance to win a non-World Tour race having ballsed up plenty of times in the past.Rick Chasey wrote:He waits for EBH.
GvA wins that sprint 19 times out of 20.
That's not how to run a team. If riders create a chance they have to be allowed to take themTwitter: @RichN950 -
Talk about overreaction, hah.
Btw, I'm not arguing that he should wait for Hagen. I'm arguing he should take advantage of the possibility of waiting for Hagen. There's quite a difference.0 -
You play the cards you've got.
EBH is behind, Stannard is the man on the spot so he has to ride for the win. By all means sit on and make GVA maintain his advantage to the finish, meaning you have another card to play if EBH makes it up to them. That would hopefully tire him for the 2 up sprint too.
It's not wheelsucking inside the last 5km when there's 2 of you both trying to win a race. It's tactics.
So basically what ThomThom said."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
RichN95 wrote:
And by doing so you basically tell Stannard that you don't think he's good enough and can't have his own chances. So you end up with a rider who feels unmotivated, undervalued, possibly resentful and probably considering his future at the team. All so EBH can have a chance to win a non-World Tour race having ballsed up plenty of times in the past.Rick Chasey wrote:He waits for EBH.
GvA wins that sprint 19 times out of 20.
That's not how to run a team. If riders create a chance they have to be allowed to take them
i kinda meant more he sits on gva wheel and eventually the ebb group gets on.
Winning cycling is about maximising your chances. That's why riders cooperate and don't.0 -
If Biggles gets on though, then GVA would do nothing, there's nothing for him to gain by cooperating. 2 guys from the same team in a small group? Those buggers can do every single piece of work and everyone else just attacks.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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If Stannard sat in and the chasing group came back then Sky would have been reliant on Stannard managing to chase down every attack that followed and then EBH winning the sprint. As DS I'd give Stannard the shot at the win, as I also think he'd earned the chance.0
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I thought the way it panned out was exactly what a DS should have told them to do.0
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Tough gig being a Sky classics rider - You win, but you still did it wrong!“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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TailWindHome wrote:Tough gig being a Sky classics rider - You win, but you still did it wrong!
Certainly is...calls for a :roll:0
