Campag cassettes pricing

Craigbes

:? Can anyone tell me why an 11-25 is so much more expensive than 12-25 for example?

ride_whenever

Because they got you on the spine pattern and like to make you suffer.

Monty Dog

Additional smaller lockring - 12 won't work with 11 sprocket

rolf_f

Monty Dog wrote:

Additional smaller lockring - 12 won't work with 11 sprocket

In no way at all is that a reason.

on-yer-bike

Its actually not an additional lock ring as you only get the one. I would agree with Rolf F that the fact they need a smaller lockring is not a reason to charge more unless smaller lockrings are harder to manufacture for some reason.

gfk_velo

12-25s come into the country in far, far greater numbers and are bought in general as OE as well as AM item.

11-25 is generally an after-market item, very few are supplied OE by comparison to 12-25, plus the cassette is more expensive to make anyway not least because volumes are far lower than the 12-25 - it shares few parts with the 12-25 item. The 11T top sprockets as a loose item are substantially more expensive than the 12T equivalent, so I'd imagine that there are some production challenges in the 11t that makes it dearer to produce.

HTH
Graeme

rolf_f

gfk_velo wrote:

12-25s come into the country in far, far greater numbers and are bought in general as OE as well as AM item.

11-25 is generally an after-market item, very few are supplied OE by comparison to 12-25, plus the cassette is more expensive to make anyway not least because volumes are far lower than the 12-25 - it shares few parts with the 12-25 item. The 11T top sprockets as a loose item are substantially more expensive than the 12T equivalent, so I'd imagine that there are some production challenges in the 11t that makes it dearer to produce.

HTH
Graeme

I'm sceptical in your faith in Campagnolos logic here! This is an Italian company run by Italians; be careful or you might become one!

Actually, it looks like the 12-25 is cheap (relatively) rather than the the 11-25 is expensive - at least as far as full retail price goes.

As soon as you look at manufacturing cost, consistency falls out of the window. eg retail appears to be the same for the 11-25 as the 12-27 but the 12-27 is a much more complicated piece of kit (the biggest three sprockets are fixed together in a rather elegant way which must surely have an associated manufacturing cost of greater magnitude than the different lock ring and one less tooth of the 11).

Probably then what happens is that some of the other, higher priced cassettes get discounted more than the 11-25 for some reason (probably populatiry based) hence 11-25 looks like the odd one out rather than 12-25.

gfk_velo

Hi Rolf

It's not faith in the Italians, I can assure you :-)

Conjoining of sprockets is consistent in 10s now - all bottom pairs are on a carrier in current Centaur, with that extending to the bottom 3 on 12-27 & 12-30. That's part of the reason that they are dearer at RRP than 12-25s, but not all of it.

11s it is consistent for conjoining throughout, and there are differences in pricing between ratios there, too.

The ex-works prices of all of the 11-up cassettes are higher than the ex-works on the 12-up cassettes and as I mentioned, the RRPs on the loose 11T is significantly higher than the RRP on a loose 12T ...

Example on 11T sprocket pricing, 10s from the RRP list:
10S-011Z 11T first sprocket for 11-23, 11-25 2014 £81.58
10S-032 Z 12A first position sprocket 12-23 2014 £10.31
10S-042 Z 12D first position sprocket 2014 £10.26

Complete cassettes at RRP:
Centaur 10X Cassette 11/23 £82.99
Centaur 10X Cassette 11/25 £82.99
Centaur 10X Cassette 12/25 £59.99
Centaur 10X Cassette 12/27 £80.99
Centaur 10X Cassette 12/30 £83.99

RRPs are generated as a direct arithmetic function of the ex-works cost.
Add that to OE supply in the retail market and you can see the resulting differentials by trawling the various internet retailers.

Calpol

To be honest I wouldn't be questioning Graeme on any of this stuff. I doubt there is anyone in the country knows more about Campagnolo than him! Its good he chooses to actively advise on these forums. Check out the Velocast tech podcast featuring him from a couple of weeks ago - its a treat for us Campagnolo fans

vanleapo

Strangely enough Shimano don't seem to charge anymore for 11sp Dura Ace cassettes with an 11 tooth sprocket.
I love Campag, but all future wheels will be coming with a Shimano freewheel and Dura Ace cassette.

DiscoBoy

vanleapo wrote:

Strangely enough Shimano don't seem to charge anymore for 11sp Dura Ace cassettes with an 11 tooth sprocket.
I love Campag, but all future wheels will be coming with a Shimano freewheel and Dura Ace cassette.

If you mean for 11 speed, then Dura Ace 9000 cassettes are unreliable and you'd be better off with a SRAM red (1090) cassette.

vanleapo

You might be right, but in what way is the Dura Ace cassette unreliable?

rolf_f

gfk_velo wrote:

RRPs are generated as a direct arithmetic function of the ex-works cost.

Howdy Graeme!

Now I'm not having that this (probably the nicest single object on my bike!)...



costs no more to make than the smallest of these plus the 11 tooth fitting lockring (though actually the pic shows a smallest sprocket = 12 but lets pretend it's an 11!)



There's got to be a bit more to it than straight forward proportion of manufacturing cost surely?

DiscoBoy

vanleapo wrote:

You might be right, but in what way is the Dura Ace cassette unreliable?

They rattle because the carbon body breaks. It's quite well documented on t'internet forums (here and weight weenies).

ETA: weight weenies thread http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 3&t=118879

keef66

Rolf F wrote:

gfk_velo wrote:

RRPs are generated as a direct arithmetic function of the ex-works cost.

Howdy Graeme!

Now I'm not having that this (probably the nicest single object on my bike!)...



costs no more to make than the smallest of these plus the 11 tooth fitting lockring (though actually the pic shows a smallest sprocket = 12 but lets pretend it's an 11!)



There's got to be a bit more to it than straight forward proportion of manufacturing cost surely?

I make that 13 teeth on the smallest sprocket

Slow day at work...

Craigbes

Thanks for all of your replys guys. I think i've got a grasp of it all!!!