New commuting road bike. Wishlist: discs & electronic gears

Roaders

Hi All

After reading Evans Cycles' blog post the other day about disc brakes on road bikes:

http://blog.evanscycles.com/new/disc-br ... m-and-why/

I want a new bike!

When I got my existing bike (a Scott Speedster S30) I wanted disc brakes but there didn't seem to be anythign on the market that offered this (other than cboardman but I refuse to buy a bike from Halfords!).

The 2 biggest annoyances with my bike are the gears and the brakes needing adjusted and serviced all the time. Although this is a lot better on my Scott than on the bike that I had before it's still a nuisance.

The blog post also highlighted that disc brakes still work in the wet. This is VERY appealing to me as I have actually hurt my hand before squeezing the brakes so hard in the wet. Not having to replace your wheels each time the rim wears out is another good point.

I have also really wanted electronic gears. I hate hears that aren't set up properly and grind and scrape. In my mind all these issues would go away if I had electronic gears.

The only problem is that the cheapest bike that I can find with hydraulic disc brakes and electronic gears is the The Specialized Roubaix SL4 Expert that costs £4,500.

I am happy to spend that on a bike (and the wife has given me permission) but I will be doing 90% of my riding cycling through London on my commute through all weathers and conditions.
I could keep my existing bike and use that when the weather's bad but I want those disc brakes for the wet.

I cycle up to 180 miles a week commuting to and from work, other than that I do an occasional Box Hill ride at the weekend and a few sportives a year: King of the downs, London to Brighton, Nightrider, Ride London 100.

Is it stupid commuting through London grime on a £4,500 bike?

I know that the components will be a lot more expensive. I am a big guy (just over 16 stone) and do a lot of miles so I get through a lot of chains and cassettes. I think the cost of a chain and cassette is about double what I spend at the moment. I might be more inclined to clean it when they are that expensive though!

I will also be covering the bike in lights, bags and panniers. It will be a working bike not a show bike so I will need a pannier rack on it, lights, horn ect. Will these all damage the frame?

Where is the bulk of the expense on a £4,500 bike? Is it the components or the super light frame? I am not particularly bothered about lightness as I will be hanging a lot of stuff off the bike (and because I am not light). I did consider getting a custom bike built but I have no idea where to start with that or if it would be any cheaper.

Thoughts and opinions please...

rafletcher

Only you can decide if its VFM. I'd say not personally, but it depends on you and your commute. As to cost of chains/cassettes. Well you don't have to buy an expensive chain. Any compatible chain (from KMC, SRAM, Wipperman/Connex) will do. Cassettes can be bought from a compatible Shimano or SRAM goupset, so a 105 cassette will do (I'm assuming that the bike will be Ultegra Di2)

Going electronic because you can't set up the gears is, IMO, daft. You'll save hundreds (if not thousands) of pounds going disc with mechanical gears (I run TRP Hy/Rd with Ultegra on my "jack of all trades" bike), and then can pay (if you can't do it yourself) your LBS to maintain them properly with the saving. Note that if by "badly set up" you mean a bit of chain rub in big/big or small/small, that's not poor setup. It's normal - except on recent high-end SRAM groups where the front mech "yaws" to allow this combo without rub - but really you shouldn't be running those gear selections is best avoided anyway for chain/gear longevity. Again, IMO, many here will differ.

Crash and damage a shifter or mech though, then you'll pay through the nose for replacements.

As to mileage, your's isn't that high.

So my advise is yes to discs, no to Di2/EPS, at lest on a commuter. You could consider getting a disc compatible fork for your Scott - 90% of braking force is through the front brake anyway - and running (mechanically operated) disc at the front, and a calliper at the rear.

meanredspider

Take a look at the Volagi Liscio. It's what I used for commuting for a couple of years (30+ mile round trip in the Scottish Highlands) - I weigh 90kg. The Liscio is pretty much the forerunner of disc road bikes and certainly has Di2 and hydraulic discs (I converted mine to Di2 from new). I don't know that you need fully hydraulic discs - I have a HyRd on the front (BB7 on the back - the rear brake does almost no braking) and, whilst I was considering going fully hydraulic, I won't now bother. If you're buying new, it might be worth doing. The Volagi is now available in the UK (I imported mine - it was the first - my brother also has one having ridden mine). Cyclist mag reviewed the Liscio recently - very positive.

The only doubt I have is panniers. I'm not sure there are many (any?) carbon road bikes with pannier mounts. The Liscio comes with guard mounts. It's a very comfortable geometry (the Volagi guys like doing double centuries). If you really need pannier, then a CX bike is probably the route to go.

TBH - this is probably the wrong forum for your needs. Try Commuting Chat where the expertise in these sorts of bikes lives.

meanredspider

rafletcher wrote:

You'll save hundreds (if not thousands) of pounds going disc with mechanical gears

A (non-hydraulic) Ultegra Di2 conversion kit will cost about £600. By the time you've sold the mechanical shifting bits from a bike, that's going to be a net cost of less than £500. It's supremely reliable, pretty much maintenance free, and bliss to use.

Roaders

Thanks for the replies

rafletcher wrote:

Going electronic because you can't set up the gears is, IMO, daft.

Nope, I can't set up gears and TBH I don't really have time or the inclination to mess around with my bike in the couple of hours I have at home at night between getting home and having to go to bed. I take my bike to the LBS a lot to get it adjusted and it would be nice not to have to do this. I put up with jumping / skipping gears for a while before I take it to the shop - again it would be nice not to have to avoid this. I am not talking about big big / small / small issues. Electronic gears is a luxury that I have wanted for a while to save me some hassle and to make riding my bike a more pleasant experience.

Roaders

meanredspider wrote:

It's supremely reliable, pretty much maintenance free, and bliss to use.

This is what I am after!

Roaders

meanredspider wrote:

The only doubt I have is panniers. I'm not sure there are many (any?) carbon road bikes with pannier mounts.

My Scott doesn't have pannier mounts on the seat stays but my pannier rack has fixings that go round the frame and work pretty well - I assume that it would be ok to use these on a carbon frame but I am not sure. All I would need is the hole in the frame near the rear hub to attach the bottom of the pannier rack.

Tjgoodhew

When you say skipping / jumping gears i am assuming you mean on the rear cassette ?

Like you i wanted to go electronic because i didnt want the hassle of having to reindex gears. But after watching a couple of youtube videos i can now reindex the rear mech in about 2 minutes. I am very new to bike maintenance and believe me this was so simple I have completely changed my opinion on my "need" for electronic.

I still struggled with the front mech as its a bit more fiddly so left that to the LBS. They adjusted it for me and it now shifts perfectly and has done for the last 1000 miles. And this is on a Tiagra groupset so not exactly top of the range

For the sake of taking a couple of minutes to watch and learn yourself it will save you a lot of money and open up a whole range of bikes with disc brakes and mechanical gears

wandsworth

Each to their own I suppose but to me it seems crazy to pay 4.5k for a bike then put guards and panniers on it and commute on it in London. For that sort of money you could get two decent bikes: one for commuting and one for the weekend rides, sportives etc. You could get discs on both if you wanted, but probably not electronic shifting. You seem to have your heart set on that, and that's fair enough, but I agree with the other commenters who have said that indexing gears (at the rear anyway) is easy, or you can get your LBS to do it.

There's another thread somewhere on road bikes with disc brakes, which has some suggestions. I personally have a Cannondale Synapse 105 Disc, which will take full guards and panniers and would be good for the commuting bike.

Roaders

Thanks for the opinions.
The aim of this exercise is not to spend £4.5k on a bike. The aim is to get a bike that will be fast and enjoyable to ride for both commuting and sportives. If I find a bike that enables me to do that and it costs £4.5k then I'll spend it. Ideall I'll spend less.
I don't do enough sportives to justify buying a bike specially for that. I only do 4 a year.

wandsworth

OK. Anyway, here's the thread on disc road bikes, in case it's useful.

cougie

You actually hurt your hand in braking ? Bizarre. 30+ years on standard brakes and never had that issue.

I think something like a hub gear would work well for you commuting. My Shimano gears stay true for months - I suspect yours might be going off if the mech is getting knocked when locking it up or something ?

Its massive overkill to go electronic to get round this small issue. You'll be having problems with a flat battery next.

I trust you have somewhere safe and secure to store the bike at work ?

I'd look at the commuting thread for teh perfect bike for you.

Roaders

It doesn't happen very often but on a downhill with wet rims and brakes and a private hire cab pulls out of a side road I put a lot of force through the levers (probably more than will make any difference). Only happens in traffic in the wet.

meanredspider

You should just go electronic because it's the future - if you buy a great bike and don't fit Di2 you'll regret it. It's bliss to use and worth it simply from that point of view for me.

jefflad

Reading this fills me with fear

If it were me spending that cash, when I got to work I'd not want to leave it in works bike shed but right next to my desk

Then again I do ride an old hack on my commutes

I'm looking forward to see what you end up with, good luck in your search!

bendertherobot

Commuting?

http://www.roseversand.de/bike/rose-pro ... aid:723254

Roaders

bendertherobot wrote:

Commuting?

http://www.roseversand.de/bike/rose-pro ... aid:723254

Thanks for that, interesting. About the closest thing to what I am looking for that I have seen so far. It seems that someone does almost produce (almost) what I am after so maybe it's not such a stupid idea!

Roaders

jefflad wrote:

Reading this fills me with fear

If it were me spending that cash, when I got to work I'd not want to leave it in works bike shed but right next to my desk

Then again I do ride an old hack on my commutes

I'm looking forward to see what you end up with, good luck in your search!

Thanks :-)

I am pretty lucky where I work in Canary Wharf. I once cycled there, locked my bike up outside, removed my removable accessories so they wouldn't get stolen and went into the building. When I returned to my bike I found all of my stuff on the floor by my bike as I'd forgotten to take it in!
I now have my bike locked up in the underground car park underneath my building. I am pretty comfortable with how safe it is.

Roaders

Update for those that are interested.

A local bike fitter that I have found has come back with some very useful suggestions and at the moment is suggesting this frame:

http://www.vannicholas.com/12/Amazon/bike.aspx
(something weird with the webpage, you might have to try going to the url for a second time)

and just hanging the components I want off it. I like the idea of a Titanium frame and selecting exactly what I want is nice too. The frame with the mounts for disc brakes doesn't have fittings for a rack but he implied that getting the manufacturer to do that would be OK. Will be speaking to them on the phone later today.

I have listened to all your points and thanks for them. I get the impression that most people don't think it's a good idea. I have probably overstated the problems I have with my gears. I do a lot of miles (IMHO) and am not the best person at maintaining the bike so it looses the "new" feeling it has after a service too quickly. The electronic gear thing is a luxury, I don't NEED it but if I want to look into how feasible it is.

bendertherobot

It's a bit complicated that way.

THere's no hydraulic group as far as I know.

So you need to buy the brakes separately:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/shi ... tAodw3UAJg

£400.

Then all the other electronic bits. So you won't get that level of discount that you get with "just" DI2.

Hydraulics are great. But, not night and day better than cable, at least not in terms of stopping power.

What you could do is just get Ultegra Di2, sell the brakes, and get a pair of TRP Hy Rd cable hydraulics. They are massively effective and you won't have to mess around with hydraulic brake hose shortening.

taon24

The Rose.
Dynamo Lights, Big Tyres, Panniers, Mudguards, Drop Bars and Electronic single speed shifting, for half your budget.

bendertherobot

Yeah, have to agree. You can easily stick Hy Rd on later if need be. Still only going to be £2400.

ugo.santalucia

Roaders wrote:

I have listened to all your points and thanks for them. I get the impression that most people don't think it's a good idea. I have probably overstated the problems I have with my gears. I do a lot of miles (IMHO) and am not the best person at maintaining the bike so it looses the "new" feeling it has after a service too quickly. The electronic gear thing is a luxury, I don't NEED it but if I want to look into how feasible it is.

Indexing the gears most of the times is just about turning a screw half the way clockwise or anticlockwise... it's really not that difficult. If that doesn't do it and it happens often, then the problem is not the cable and most likely you'd have the same problem with an electric setup

cycleclinic

There is the shimao R785 hydro/Di2 brake/shifter due out ext month so there is a hydro disc road group but Di2 for commuting well that is overkill.

Disc brakes for commutig are fie plenty of cross bikes with these. Few road frames but they are on the market though.

As for mechanical gear change giving trouble - my winter bike which I use a fair bit is fitted with Campagnolo veloce 10 speed. In November 2012 I took the groupset off to have the frame resprayed red. I refitted it and set up the gears. I have not touched the barrel adjusters until today. Several thousand miles of wet weather riding and all I needed to do was to turn the mech barrel adjuster clockwise (inwards) to release cable tension a bit to improve the down shift. It took me two minutes to do it on the fly. If that is unrelaible then I can assure Di2 is no better. So by all means get Di2 but do't by it because you think it will be more reliable than mechanical shifting it won't. If you want a groupset that shifts flawlessly then use Campagnolo Veloce why because the Campagnolo cables and casing are far superior to anything else anyone else makes in terms of reliabilty (high grade stainless) but as campagnolo gear cables only fit in Campagnolo shifters you have to use campagnolo to use these.

Still by whatever you want but don't be fooled into buying it.

antsmithmk

Roaders wrote:

I have also really wanted electronic gears. I hate hears that aren't set up properly and grind and scrape. In my mind all these issues would go away if I had electronic gears.

Is it stupid commuting through London grime on a £4,500 bike?

I know that the components will be a lot more expensive. I am a big guy (just over 16 stone) and do a lot of miles so I get through a lot of chains and cassettes. I think the cost of a chain and cassette is about double what I spend at the moment. I might be more inclined to clean it when they are that expensive though!...

My thoughts... You might not like them....

If you can't set up manual gears, you won't be able to set up electronic gears. The limit screws are the same. Granted you don't get cable stretch with Di2 so once set up you prob wouldn't need to adjust.

Is it stupid commuting on a £4,500 bike? Yes. If you are loading it with bags, racks etc most of the benefits of buying a bike in that price range will be undone ie low weight, handling, feel etc.

If you can afford it and it makes you happy then go for it, but for £1500 you could pick up a bike that would serve your role as a super commuter much much better.

Evil Laugh

Of course di2 is more reliable than mechanical. The gear change is not subject to friction or cable stretch it's set and forget. The only thing that knocks it out is bending the mech hanger.

You could buy the Sora Roubaix SL4 disc and upgrade to hydraulic Di2 getting much the same bike as the £4500 Roubaix but for more like £2700. I know Sigma Sport will do this.

Also if you are doing nearly 10000 miles a year on your bike, get what is comfortable for you in terms of ride, price and replacement cost. If you came on here asking for advice on which best/summer bike to buy nobody would bat an eyelid at your budget yet the bike may do 20% of your mileage, so which is better value?

meanredspider

thecycleclinic wrote:

There is the shimao R785 hydro/Di2 brake/shifter due out ext month so there is a hydro disc road group but Di2 for commuting well that is overkill.

I'm not picking on you but comments about "commuting" like that upset me. I'd do 30-35 miles a day year-in, year-out in the Highlands. That means my kit was seeing far more action than many Sunday princess bikes and kit in far more testing conditions. The fact that I could jump on exactly the same bike and do London 2 Edinburgh, or Inverness to Edinburgh (in a day) just meant I was getting much more value out of it than most. The point of quality kit is that it lasts longer and performs better - the fact that the ride might between your house and your work is irrelevant IMO.

thegibdog

Saw the Genesis Day One Alfine Di2 on the Genesis website and thought it was an interesting bike but a lot of money for what it is. It seems to be the kind of bike you're after though and it's half your budget:

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/adv ... alfine-di2

(Surely they could've sorted out some internal routing for the rear brake?)

cal_stewart

Boardman cxr, di2,discs,guard and rack mounts 3200

964cup

I commute on a Felt F3X; carbon frame, TRP Hy/Rd discs, Ultegra 6800. £2300 from Wiggle with the usual 12% discount. I swapped to carbon bars (for comfort), a carbon post and my favourite saddle, and fitted road tyres (Hutchison Intensive tubeless) and Raceblades. It makes a perfectly capable Sunday group ride bike, despite (or because of) the CX chainset - 46x11 is still a decent gear (spins out at 60kph), and it means I have a good climbing range in the big ring. It's needed nothing except cleaning since I got it, despite some filthy conditions, including riding through floods above the BB, and it's absurdly comfortable. If you were desperate for Di2, you could get a conversion kit for £600 or so, then sell off the mechanical shifters and front and rear mechs. The rear mech is in fact DA9000, so I imagine you'd see £300 or more for the mechanical bits. Comfortably under £3k, then, with Di2, your choice of bars and saddle, and road tyres and guards.

antonyfromoz

I am not sure if you can get it in the UK but there is also the Norco Indie Drop with alfine Di2 and disks: http://www.joe-bike.com/bikes/commuter- ... lfine-di2/

Cromoly frame so not too light but built to last from a company famous for its mountain bikes with fittings for rack and mudguards. (I have the basic Sora model but I understand the frame is the same).