Garmin Vector buying help

meanredspider

Any deals spotted? There aren't many sellers and the best price I've found (in the UK) is via Amazon through a seller I don't know with only £50 off. At £1349 standard price, I feel like I should be able to do better than 5%.

schlepcycling

As it's on Amazon you may be able to get a better deal via Flubit https://www.flubit.com/
or here http://www.powermeter24.com/en/products/garmin/garmin-power-meter/garmin-vector-pedal-based-powermeter for about £1100 with free shipping.

spasypaddy

make sure you factor in a torque wrench that goes to 25nm and the adaptor to do pedals up with it.

meanredspider

schlepcycling wrote:

As it's on Amazon you may be able to get a better deal via Flubit https://www.flubit.com/
or here http://www.powermeter24.com/en/products/garmin/garmin-power-meter/garmin-vector-pedal-based-powermeter for about £1100 with free shipping.

That German site looks good - thanks! Since I'm in Amsterdam it's even better.

spasypaddy wrote:

make sure you factor in a torque wrench that goes to 25nm and the adaptor to do pedals up with it.

Ah - torque wrench is no problem - crow's foot spanner thing I can source (now I understand why they are on the Google Shopping search)

mroli

If you get a torque wrench, remember that it needs to do torque going BOTH ways....

spasypaddy

meanredspider wrote:

schlepcycling wrote:

As it's on Amazon you may be able to get a better deal via Flubit https://www.flubit.com/
or here http://www.powermeter24.com/en/products/garmin/garmin-power-meter/garmin-vector-pedal-based-powermeter for about £1100 with free shipping.

That German site looks good - thanks! Since I'm in Amsterdam it's even better.

spasypaddy wrote:

make sure you factor in a torque wrench that goes to 25nm and the adaptor to do pedals up with it.

Ah - torque wrench is no problem - crow's foot spanner thing I can source (now I understand why they are on the Google Shopping search)

25nm is a huge amount of torque btw.


out of interest why are you going down the vector approach?

meanredspider

mroli wrote:

If you get a torque wrench, remember that it needs to do torque going BOTH ways....

Don't they all? I have 5 (or might be 6) torque wrenches - they all do...

spasypaddy

but why the vector system?

meanredspider

spasypaddy wrote:

25nm is a huge amount of torque btw.

out of interest why are you going down the vector approach?

Only in bike terms is it huge. In car terms, it's not that much.

I'm choosing Vector because I have 3 bikes I want to use it on with two different BBs and different rear hubs (disc brakes on the Volagi). Vector seems to tick most of the boxes albeit expensive and Look Keo pedals (which I don't much care for). It has the advantage of L vs R pedal power (if I look at the muscles on my legs, I guess I favour my right leg) and looks pretty simple to maintain (battery change etc).

meanredspider

spasypaddy wrote:

but why the vector system?

Patience!

spasypaddy

meanredspider wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

25nm is a huge amount of torque btw.

out of interest why are you going down the vector approach?

Only in bike terms is it huge. In car terms, it's not that much.

I'm choosing Vector because I have 3 bikes I want to use it on with two different BBs and different rear hubs (disc brakes on the Volagi). Vector seems to tick most of the boxes albeit expensive and Look Keo pedals (which I don't much care for). It has the advantage of L vs R pedal power (if I look at the muscles on my legs, I guess I favour my right leg) and looks pretty simple to maintain (battery change etc).

ok.
so
1. changing it between bikes is NOT easy. due to the torque and the precision with which it needs to be fitted.
2. what BBs?
3. you dont like keos so why not get a crank based system and just convert one of the bbs to match?

personally id be looking at:
stages (you want l/r so maybe not this)
power2max
quarq
rotor power

if i was going to spend that much on a power system i'd want it to be really easy to swap between bikes, a whole chainset is easier to swap than the vector power system even though its 'just' pedals. and to be used a pedal system that i was very comfortable with. the vectors are expensive to maintain, if you ground a pedal its an expensive replacement.

i'd then probably settle on the power2max for your needs.

my 2p worth

meanredspider

spasypaddy wrote:

ok.
so
1. changing it between bikes is NOT easy. due to the torque and the precision with which it needs to be fitted.
2. what BBs?
3. you dont like keos so why not get a crank based system and just convert one of the bbs to match?

personally id be looking at:
stages (you want l/r so maybe not this)
power2max
quarq
rotor power

if i was going to spend that much on a power system i'd want it to be really easy to swap between bikes, a whole chainset is easier to swap than the vector power system even though its 'just' pedals. and to be used a pedal system that i was very comfortable with. the vectors are expensive to maintain, if you ground a pedal its an expensive replacement.

i'd then probably settle on the power2max for your needs.

my 2p worth

I'm not really worried by the torquing up part and the cleat issue (Look Keos) is less of a deal if I'm not commuting on them. Finally I'd like a system that's easy to carry between Amsterdam and Inverness - a crank is surprisingly bulky due to its odd shape.

Why do you say that the Vectors are expensive to maintain? Apart from crash damage (which is incredibly unlikely for me) I'm not sure what else is needed. The batteries are easy to change (one of the systems has to be sent away). The reviews all seem to be positive but if there's anything I'm missing, it would be great to know before I blow north of a grand.

spasypaddy

by expensive to maintain i mean parts.

a crank arm in two pieces will fit in your bag pretty easily.

then theres the problem with all the different washers/fittings that the vectors needs to get accurate readings.

meanredspider

Doesn't it need to be the complete crank? (Inc shaft)

Have you got the reference for all of these Garmin troubles? I've read around a bit and the general conclusion is that it's pretty simple and pretty reliable - hence being slight perplexed by your view.

meanredspider

DC Rainmaker review on swapping pedals http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/09/garm ... eview.html

As you can see, about 6 minutes and 30 seconds end to end. About 90 seconds of that was removal, and 5 minutes installation. Oh, and note that I had never installed them on that second bike before – so that was a first attempt, and only did one video recording shot (like live TV!). I figure that makes it a bit more realistic.

I’ll be doing the same with a Quarq Elsa in the coming weeks (just need to get a different bottom bracket for my other bike). Having swapped the Quarq’s before, you’ll find you can definitely do it faster than Vector on a pure time basis. Of course, with the Quarq, you’re having to deal with chain rings and a large object that’s not quite as easy nor as compatible to travel with.

ride_whenever

25nm isn't that much in bike terms, bb and cassette lockrings are usually 40nm, steel lockrings 50nm, SRAM crank 51nm

Hell you'll use more force fitting a headset to a tight press fit bb. 25nm with a big wrench isn't even hard

meanredspider

The only issue I've unearthed as I've done research is that whether the Vector will fit on my FSA SL-K Light cranks on the Volagi - the jury seems to be out on that. If I was going to end up changing cranks, I'd probably go the Stages route

meanredspider

I'm actually swinging around to Power2max simply because of needing a different crank for the Volagi which kinda defeats the advantage of the Vectors - it all begins to get quite complicated.

gabriel959

Can you just not get a powertap?

meanredspider

gabriel959 wrote:

Can you just not get a powertap?

Unfortunately not - the Scott Foil (Dutch bike) and Volagi Liscio (Scottish bike) could hardly be more different. The Volagi has a rear disc hub - the Foil obviously doesn't. The Volagi is current BB30 with compact SL-K Light and the Foil is BSA with standard double Ultegra. In fact the only common element is Di2. One is for very hilly and one is for totally flat.

I'll be doing most of my training for the Alpe (AD6) on the Foil (going to Limburg this weekend) and my turbo bitch Focus Variado - so I want the power meter for them - but I'll be doing the day itself on the Volagi (comfortable geometry and discs for the descents) and ride to the power. Of course, I plan to continue using the meter on both bikes long term (I'm hoping that the Tacx turbo won't need it once I've calibrated/validated the results - it's very consistent and I think probably not too far off).

It's a PITA that the Vector won't fit the FSA as that would be the most convenient for me but if I need to add a new crank and BB adaptor to the cost it starts to look very expensive. Power2max isn't ideal - especially for transporting (I can see I'm going to need to take the chain rings off to get it into my carry-on bag) but it makes sense from a cost point of view.

rolf_f

meanredspider wrote:

It's a PITA that the Vector won't fit the FSA as that would be the most convenient for me but if I need to add a new crank and BB adaptor to the cost it starts to look very expensive.

But presumably the FSA cranks have resale value.

Also, if you keep the FSA cranks presumably the chainrings will swap over and it often bizarrely seems to work out cheaper to replace the crankset rather than the rings only so in the long run buying a new set of cranks might not really cost much. You are just moving a future spend to the present.

spasypaddy

ok so what id recommend is an ultegra stages, then get a 2nd hand ultegra crankset from here (i got one brand new no scuffs for £110).

i can swap my stages between bikes in under 1 minute 30seconds.

meanredspider

So - let me think out loud

So Garmin Vector
Vector unit £1100
Crankset Ultegra £120
Pros - easy transport - simple transfer
Cons - Look Keo pedals - swapping cleats

Power2max
Power meter (incl crank) £850
Pros - current/consistent pedals/cleats
Cons - more difficult transport

The Vector is slightly more sophisticated and Garmin are talking about bringing out pods that would fit the FSAs

One question I have is how easy to swap are BB adaptors? Is it unrealistic to think I can swap the Volagi regularly from BB30 cranks to BSA cranks?

meanredspider

spasypaddy wrote:

ok so what id recommend is an ultegra stages, then get a 2nd hand ultegra crankset from here (i got one brand new no scuffs for £110).

i can swap my stages between bikes in under 1 minute 30seconds.

Are Ultegra and 105 crank arms compatible? It's not the end of the world but the turbo uses a compact 105 crankset and the Foil an Ultegra double. For calibrating the turbo, I could swap the Ultegra crank over but I wouldn't fancy doing Alpe D'huez (on the turbo) several times a day on a double.

Jeez - this should be much easier!

spasypaddy

meanredspider wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

ok so what id recommend is an ultegra stages, then get a 2nd hand ultegra crankset from here (i got one brand new no scuffs for £110).

i can swap my stages between bikes in under 1 minute 30seconds.

Are Ultegra and 105 crank arms compatible? It's not the end of the world but the turbo uses a compact 105 crankset and the Foil an Ultegra double. For calibrating the turbo, I could swap the Ultegra crank over but I wouldn't fancy doing Alpe D'huez (on the turbo) several times a day on a double.

Jeez - this should be much easier!

yes.

by and large all modern shimano cranksets are compatible.

in theory you could buy a 105 crank arm and put it on a dura ace 9000 crankset. all you need to make sure is that they run the same length crank arms.

you install it, do a zero reset, and ride away. simple

mine currently goes between an ultegra double, a dura ace double and a dura ace compact. soon to add in a CX crankset into the mix which will also work fine

meanredspider

Ok - this might ultimately be the easiest route. It would be good to know the balance of power from my legs over a long period but I suspect my left leg is the weaker so, maybe for my key needs (riding "extreme" endurance) this could be the limiting capability anyway. I don't mind having an Ultegra crank arm on the turbo (I don't really mind crank mis-match anyway - I bet no-one would notice).

Best places to buy?

cyclingprop

http://www.saddleback.co.uk/stages-road-power-meters for the full range (oh look, FSA versions).

spasypaddy

meanredspider wrote:

Ok - this might ultimately be the easiest route. It would be good to know the balance of power from my legs over a long period but I suspect my left leg is the weaker so, maybe for my key needs (riding "extreme" endurance) this could be the limiting capability anyway. I don't mind having an Ultegra crank arm on the turbo (I don't really mind crank mis-match anyway - I bet no-one would notice).

Best places to buy?

any online retailer really.


and yeah they make FSA but then it wouldnt be compatible with all his shimano cranksets...

meanredspider

spasypaddy wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Ok - this might ultimately be the easiest route. It would be good to know the balance of power from my legs over a long period but I suspect my left leg is the weaker so, maybe for my key needs (riding "extreme" endurance) this could be the limiting capability anyway. I don't mind having an Ultegra crank arm on the turbo (I don't really mind crank mis-match anyway - I bet no-one would notice).

Best places to buy?

any online retailer really.


and yeah they make FSA but then it wouldnt be compatible with all his shimano cranksets...

Um - anybody know one with any stock? Seriously, like trying to find hens' teeth....

Ideally I'm after Ultegra 6700 though 6800 would be fine too - 172.5 crank length

rolf_f

meanredspider wrote:

One question I have is how easy to swap are BB adaptors? Is it unrealistic to think I can swap the Volagi regularly from BB30 cranks to BSA cranks?

Maybe talking poop but my understanding is that really you don't want to refit BB30 adaptors because the plug part of the adaptor gets distorted during insertion and re-installation is likely to result in creaking.

Might be wrong but I wouldn't consider it (the adaptors on my CR1 will go in with loctite and hopefully remain in place forever!

spasypaddy

try these people:
http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/