Carbon tubular MTB wheels for road disc bike

ClaudeH

I am considering getting a new bike and, for the time being at least, I am very tempted by the Legend 9.5. Now this comes with a disc brake option and whilst I definitely believe that this is going to be the future, I am slightly concerned about dropping a serious amount of cash now on something where the technology of the components is still playing catch up. In particular, it seems that carbon wheels should be ideally suited to disc brakes as the issue about poor braking disappears and the expensive rims should have far greater longevity. Unfortunately, it seems almost all of the manufacturers' road disc wheels are re-worked rim brake wheels which means they are heavy and not really designed for the purpose.

On weightweenies there is a thread http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=122915 from someone who has used Enve 29er carbon tubular wheels on his road disc setup http://www.enve.com/wheels/mtb/29XC.aspx. These are very light, designed for discs from the start and, I assume, robust as they are MTB wheels.

Does anyone have any views whether this makes sense?

ugo.santalucia

Your link points towards the clinchers/tubeless rather than the tubulars.

My only concern is that the rim width is not ideal for road tyres. If they are designed for MTB tyres, they are too wide to fit a 23 mm tyre and that's true for the tubulars as well as the clinchers

ClaudeH

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Your link points towards the clinchers/tubeless rather than the tubulars.

My only concern is that the rim width is not ideal for road tyres. If they are designed for MTB tyres, they are too wide to fit a 23 mm tyre and that's true for the tubulars as well as the clinchers

Sorry, fixed link to the correct wheel. I think the guy from weightweenies runs 25mm tubulars which is probably what I would do.

ugo.santalucia

ClaudeH wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Your link points towards the clinchers/tubeless rather than the tubulars.

My only concern is that the rim width is not ideal for road tyres. If they are designed for MTB tyres, they are too wide to fit a 23 mm tyre and that's true for the tubulars as well as the clinchers

Sorry, fixed link to the correct wheel. I think the guy from weightweenies runs 25mm tubulars which is probably what I would do.

The link is still wrong...
No idea, I think you either trust the guy on WW or you don't trust him. Have a chat with him and see what he says about running 25 tubs on a MTB rim

cycleclinic

Given Vittoria Pave's come up at 25.5mm there is not alot of overlap between the tub and the rim. Persoally I would use the 300g 45mm deep enve rim if you want enve rims. These are light and designed for road tubs. Saddle back (U.K Enve distirbutor) sell the rims I have looked as I hoping I can afford to buy some for myself.

ClaudeH

thecycleclinic wrote:

Given Vittoria Pave's come up at 25.5mm there is not alot of overlap between the tub and the rim. Persoally I would use the 300g 45mm deep enve rim if you want enve rims. These are light and designed for road tubs. Saddle back (U.K Enve distirbutor) sell the rims I have looked as I hoping I can afford to buy some for myself.

Thanks for that. Could these spoked up in a way that would be appropriate for disc brakes?

racingcondor

ClaudH -

There have been some good threads on WeightWeenies about the difficulties / benefits / drawbacks of running wide rims etc with Tubs, mostly the problem that with a broad, largely flat rim bed you need to be sure that the tyre you're using gets decent contact when you glue it.

I agree with you, one of the big advantages of disc brakes should be that you can make some very interesting rims but I'm not sure that the industry has achieved that yet. Enve, perhaps predictably with their R&D budget are ahead of the bunch as you know.

Lacing wise, a lot will depend on use so I'd talk to your wheel builder. The norm though is that you lace discs 3X and high spoke count so that the spokes are at an angle that helps resist the forces you're putting through the wheel under heavy braking (think about it, you're braking at the hub and the resistance to that is way out at the rim, it's a great way to kill a poorly built wheel).

Enve deal with that by doing 24/24 2X which makes for a very steep spoke angle.

http://www.enve.com/wheels/road/3.4discclincher.aspx

ClaudeH

racingcondor wrote:

ClaudH -

There have been some good threads on WeightWeenies about the difficulties / benefits / drawbacks of running wide rims etc with Tubs, mostly the problem that with a broad, largely flat rim bed you need to be sure that the tyre you're using gets decent contact when you glue it.

I agree with you, one of the big advantages of disc brakes should be that you can make some very interesting rims but I'm not sure that the industry has achieved that yet. Enve, perhaps predictably with their R&D budget are ahead of the bunch as you know.

Lacing wise, a lot will depend on use so I'd talk to your wheel builder. The norm though is that you lace discs 3X and high spoke count so that the spokes are at an angle that helps resist the forces you're putting through the wheel under heavy braking (think about it, you're braking at the hub and the resistance to that is way out at the rim, it's a great way to kill a poorly built wheel).

Enve deal with that by doing 24/24 2X which makes for a very steep spoke angle.

http://www.enve.com/wheels/road/3.4discclincher.aspx

It's all a bit unsatisfactory. May be best to go with some cheaper wheels to begin and upgrade when the manufacturers have matured their offerings.

ugo.santalucia

ClaudeH wrote:

racingcondor wrote:

ClaudH -

There have been some good threads on WeightWeenies about the difficulties / benefits / drawbacks of running wide rims etc with Tubs, mostly the problem that with a broad, largely flat rim bed you need to be sure that the tyre you're using gets decent contact when you glue it.

I agree with you, one of the big advantages of disc brakes should be that you can make some very interesting rims but I'm not sure that the industry has achieved that yet. Enve, perhaps predictably with their R&D budget are ahead of the bunch as you know.

Lacing wise, a lot will depend on use so I'd talk to your wheel builder. The norm though is that you lace discs 3X and high spoke count so that the spokes are at an angle that helps resist the forces you're putting through the wheel under heavy braking (think about it, you're braking at the hub and the resistance to that is way out at the rim, it's a great way to kill a poorly built wheel).

Enve deal with that by doing 24/24 2X which makes for a very steep spoke angle.

http://www.enve.com/wheels/road/3.4discclincher.aspx

It's all a bit unsatisfactory. May be best to go with some cheaper wheels to begin and upgrade when the manufacturers have matured their offerings.

Agree... Get some nice hubs... Shimano XTR or the CX 75 or so and take if from there

cycleclinic

The Enve 1.45 (45mm deep) tubular rim comes in 28H drilling so combine with Shimano CX-75, Chris King, or DT Swiss 240 disc brake hubs and you will have a fine wheel.

XTR hubs are lovely but are 32H only ruling ENVE road rims. Shimano CX-75 hubs are 500g/pair so if a light weight build is wanted then the DT Swiss 240 disc brake hubs would be my choice. Man you are giving me ideas for a future bike. I hate this thread.

28H can be done 3x with the hubs I have mentioed (I am sure the flanges on all them are small enough they certainly are on the CX-75) ad that is my preferance for disc brake wheels. 2x works but anything less is taking risks.

ClaudeH

In the few hours since I started this thread I have been made redundant! So expensive new bikes will have to wait unfortunately.

ugo.santalucia

ClaudeH wrote:

In the few hours since I started this thread I have been made redundant! So expensive new bikes will have to wait unfortunately.

Sorry to hear that...
Take it as an opportunity for a change, the economy is not too bad right now, you'll find another job in no time...

ClaudeH

ugo.santalucia wrote:

ClaudeH wrote:

In the few hours since I started this thread I have been made redundant! So expensive new bikes will have to wait unfortunately.

Sorry to hear that...
Take it as an opportunity for a change, the economy is not too bad right now, you'll find another job in no time...

Thanks. And I will be far more prepared for the Marmotte than I thought.

cycleclinic

That's crap luck but after three redundancies I thought I would start a business so far so good at staying employed.