Shimano 105 compact groupset issue

1964johnr

Just purchased a Ribble Gran Fondo with Shimano 105 set up. First ride on Sunday. Front mech chain rub on two loweat gears on the big chain ring and three biggest gears on the small chain ring. Set up issue or just normal for this group set? . I can't believe that out of 20 gears in total, five of them have a problem with front mech chain rub. My old bike was a Tiagra groupset and I only had this issue with two gears on a triple set up.

rolf_f

User error - keep the chainline reasonably straight and no worries. You aren't missing out on any gearing by not crossing the chain. Some shifters have an adjustment click or two which should eliminate most chain rub even if you are in a wrong gear combination but I have no idea if 105 does (though at that level it certainly should).

If you think about it, if you are getting rub in both directions (small small and big big) then the only way to stop it would be to have a wider front mech cage so it clearly isn't a set up issue!

duckson

In the big ring you will have trim position with 105.
You should be able to set it up with no rub in 2nd largest to smallest sprocket when in the big chainring and largest to 2nd smallest in the small chainring....just takes a bit of fine tuning by making sure the limit screws are set perfectly and the cable tension is right.

chris_bass

Rolf F wrote:

If you think about it, if you are getting rub in both directions (small small and big big) then the only way to stop it would be to have a wider front mech cage so it clearly isn't a set up issue!

Not necessarily, if the limit screws are set wrong it could limit the position enough to cause this issue,

Whilst it isn't a good idea you should be able to use all the gears with 105, well mine does anyway.

Buckie2k5

You can spend hours and hours trying to stop the rub completley, best method is dont cross chain.

rolf_f

Chris Bass wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

If you think about it, if you are getting rub in both directions (small small and big big) then the only way to stop it would be to have a wider front mech cage so it clearly isn't a set up issue!

Not necessarily, if the limit screws are set wrong it could limit the position enough to cause this issue,

Whilst it isn't a good idea you should be able to use all the gears with 105, well mine does anyway.

I don't think so in this case. If the limit screws are causing rub when you are cross chaining then that's got to be the least of your problems. Eg if you were getting rub on big big, then the only way the limit screws would be likely to be a problem is the outer limit screw being turned in too far (the inner being irrelevant at this point) - and that would therefore rub the outside of the chain in all gears. For big big to be the problem, the inside of the chain would need to be rubbing on the inside cage and it would need to be way out for that to happen - at least I assume so. I've never had them that badly adjusted to cause this!

paul2718

105 has a 'trim' option, you can make half shifts on the front changer. Try this and see if it makes a difference.

Paul

me-109

Like duckson said above, with careful set up you should get nine on either chainring without rub. Just a little tweaking required.

tackleberry

As a 105 veteran of some years standing I am mystified why there is an expectation that you can use all cogs on either chainring. Cross chaining is bad. I know it is fashionable for some to climb still in the big ring, right the way down to the granny gear but people need to be sensible. With 10 and 11 speed cassettes being so closely aligned I think it is perfectly acceptable for chain rub to be experienced either in the bottom 3 sprockets on the big ring and the top 2 sprockets on the inner ring. I have always thought that "18/20/22 Speed" decriptions are enormously misleading. With 10 speeds (for us lesser mortals) at most you have 12 gearing options with only sprocket 4, 5 and maybe 6 able to be used with inner and outer chainring.

I think it is also true that 105 FDs and shifters allow for some flex/trim options (mine certainly does). Complete freedom to use whatever combination is not in its power to provide however.

T

tackleberry

As a 105 veteran of some years standing I am mystified why there is an expectation that you can use all cogs on either chainring. Cross chaining is bad. I know it is fashionable for some to climb still in the big ring, right the way down to the granny gear but people need to be sensible. With 10 and 11 speed cassettes being so closely aligned I think it is perfectly acceptable for chain rub to be experienced either in the bottom 3 sprockets on the big ring and the top 2 sprockets on the inner ring. I have always thought that "18/20/22 Speed" decriptions are enormously misleading. With 10 speeds (for us lesser mortals) at most you have 12 gearing options with only sprocket 4, 5 and maybe 6 able to be used with inner and outer chainring.

I think it is also true that 105 FDs and shifters allow for some flex/trim options (mine certainly does). Complete freedom to use whatever combination is not in its power to provide however.

T

markhewitt1978

1964johnr wrote:

Just purchased a Ribble Gran Fondo with Shimano 105 set up. First ride on Sunday. Front mech chain rub on two loweat gears on the big chain ring and three biggest gears on the small chain ring. Set up issue or just normal for this group set?

Entirely normal and expected. As said you can use the trim function to dial some of this out.

. I can't believe that out of 20 gears in total, five of them have a problem with front mech chain rub.

Your thinking is wrong there, you don't have 20 gears. You have a compact double with a 10 speed cassette, that doesn't equal 20 usable gears.

mpie

Buckie2k5 wrote:

You can spend hours and hours trying to stop the rub completley, best method is dont cross chain.

I had the same observation as the OP. What seemed odd was that my old bike with 9-speed Sora (no trim click) was really easy to set up and I never had any chain rub issues with any gear combination. On 10-speed 105 however, it seem much more finicky. If I fettle around I get just about get a no-rub setup, but it's very marginal and I still have to use the trim click. Does 105 have a narrower cage? Does the new bike's shorter seat stays make a difference? As people have said, cross-chaining is not a good idea for various reasons - I just wonder why the 'better' groupset is so much harder to set up.

CiB

Concur re trimming but not about having a reasonable expectation of how many usable gears you have - with correct set-up all are available, even though there's no good reason to use the extremes. You could bin the 105s and fit Di2 instead, that does all the trimming for you.

CiB

mpie wrote:

..I still have to use the trim click.

Course you do - you have a cage that's designed to be narrow enough to push the chain across efficiently without lots of lag or take-up, and at the same time cope with a chain angle that spans all 10 gears. You can either have a sloppy gear change with no trim, or the other way round; pricier kits emphasises performance over hand-holding.

tonye_n

CiB wrote:

mpie wrote:

..I still have to use the trim click.

Course you do - you have a cage that's designed to be narrow enough to push the chain across efficiently without lots of lag or take-up, and at the same time cope with a chain angle that spans all 10 gears. You can either have a sloppy gear change with no trim, or the other way round; pricier kits emphasises performance over hand-holding.

This ^^^

davep1

Help me out lads! I read it differently to everyone else that replied, can I check what I am getting wrong?

The OP said

1964johnr wrote:

... Front mech chain rub on two loweat gears on the big chain ring and three biggest gears on the small chain ring...

I read that as big ring at the front, smallest cogs at the back (say 11-12 if it is 11-25 cassette) and small ring at front, three biggest at the back (so 25-23-21 depending on what teeth are on the cassette). Is that what a cross-chain is? Seems like as straight a line as you can get to me? I don't use my big ring at the front with the biggest cog(s) at the back, and vice versa, because you have the chain angled all the way across as far as it will go.

lewiskinch

Low gear = Easy to pedal, high gear = hard to pedal

chris_bass

DaveP1 wrote:

Help me out lads! I read it differently to everyone else that replied, can I check what I am getting wrong?

The OP said

1964johnr wrote:

... Front mech chain rub on two loweat gears on the big chain ring and three biggest gears on the small chain ring...

I read that as big ring at the front, smallest cogs at the back (say 11-12 if it is 11-25 cassette) and small ring at front, three biggest at the back (so 25-23-21 depending on what teeth are on the cassette). Is that what a cross-chain is? Seems like as straight a line as you can get to me? I don't use my big ring at the front with the biggest cog(s) at the back, and vice versa, because you have the chain angled all the way across as far as it will go.

Actually, yeah, I think i misread it at first, that does sound like he means big chain ring and small on the cassette and small chain ring and big on the cassette, which would mean it is not set up right at all.

rickeverett

depends on whats a "big gear" - the cog size or the ratio ?
( You shouldn't get rub in small ring 25-28T or Big ring 12-11T )


could partially be setup if its rub in a crossed chain.

I can go into 11T with the smallest 105 Compact Chainring, but I have to trim up to stop rub. - I don't really do that anyway as doing so is a bit of a chain strainer habit.
In the Largest Chainring I have rub on 25T but again, why go into another chain strainer?

mpie

CiB wrote:

mpie wrote:

..I still have to use the trim click.

Course you do - you have a cage that's designed to be narrow enough to push the chain across efficiently without lots of lag or take-up, and at the same time cope with a chain angle that spans all 10 gears. You can either have a sloppy gear change with no trim, or the other way round; pricier kits emphasises performance over hand-holding.

Except 105 shifting performance is no better than Sora, just different (both are perfectly good). OK, Sora was 9 speed and had the much mailigned thumb lever, but its shifting performance was no worse than 105's. In some ways, better (lighter action).

Oh, and I don't recall Sora ever 'holding my hand'. It just changed gears as required (reliably and efficiently).

rickeverett

mpie wrote:

CiB wrote:

mpie wrote:

..I still have to use the trim click.

Course you do - you have a cage that's designed to be narrow enough to push the chain across efficiently without lots of lag or take-up, and at the same time cope with a chain angle that spans all 10 gears. You can either have a sloppy gear change with no trim, or the other way round; pricier kits emphasises performance over hand-holding.

Except 105 shifting performance is no better than Sora, just different (both are perfectly good). OK, Sora was 9 speed and had the much mailigned thumb lever, but its shifting performance was no worse than 105's. In some ways, better (lighter action).

Oh, and I don't recall Sora ever 'holding my hand'. It just changed gears as required (reliably and efficiently).

dunno. I have the latest Sora and 105 on different bikes. 105 is smoother and changes with a glide quicker. Sora is lighter yes, but feels more clunky and changes aren't as rapid. It needs adjusting more than 105 too.

105 shifting performance is better and the whole group is more refined.

Jonbek

When I got my Cannondale with 105 I had plenty of problems with chain rub, ended up going to LBS embarrassingly but he got it shifting great in no time, obviously using the trim at extremes. Have been really pleased with 105 though, impressive for the price.

1964johnr

Interesting comments from all contributors which do offer different opinions. I think i may have been caught out a little because I did not have this issue on my Tiagra set up except on the biggest gear on the small chain ring. Anyway, not being satisfied with the set up, i took it to my lbs and explained the problem to the mechanic. he told me that it was quite normal to expect some chain rub on some gears as a result of cross chaining. he also pointed out that using the trim on the big chain ring will cure some of this. He did say that chain rub on five gears could be reduced to a couple of gears with a better set up. He set the front mech up again and tweaked the cable to make it a little tighter and charged me £14.99. I now have a set up where I only have chain rub on the lowest gear on the big ring and the highest gear on the small ring. So I now have the use of three extra gears. It would seem that the set up at Ribble was a little out of kilter. He did however say to me that although it was now possible to use the gears I didn't previously use due to the chain rub, it would be a good idea not to use them to often and not for to long because it would put pressure on the chain due to the angle of the chain coming in to the front mech and undue pressure on the rear cassette. I'm trying to get the £ 14.99 from Ribble. Anyone have any views as to should Ribble be paying or am I being to finicky and therefore should pay myself?

markhewitt1978

Forget contacting Ribble, the setup of the mech is not an exact science and is open to interpretation, from your description they have set it up correctly. The fact that the LBS set it up to your preference doesn't mean it was wrong in the first place.

rickeverett

1964johnr wrote:

Interesting comments from all contributors which do offer different opinions. I think i may have been caught out a little because I did not have this issue on my Tiagra set up except on the biggest gear on the small chain ring. Anyway, not being satisfied with the set up, i took it to my lbs and explained the problem to the mechanic. he told me that it was quite normal to expect some chain rub on some gears as a result of cross chaining. he also pointed out that using the trim on the big chain ring will cure some of this. He did say that chain rub on five gears could be reduced to a couple of gears with a better set up. He set the front mech up again and tweaked the cable to make it a little tighter and charged me £14.99. I now have a set up where I only have chain rub on the lowest gear on the big ring and the highest gear on the small ring. So I now have the use of three extra gears. It would seem that the set up at Ribble was a little out of kilter. He did however say to me that although it was now possible to use the gears I didn't previously use due to the chain rub, it would be a good idea not to use them to often and not for to long because it would put pressure on the chain due to the angle of the chain coming in to the front mech and undue pressure on the rear cassette. I'm trying to get the £ 14.99 from Ribble. Anyone have any views as to should Ribble be paying or am I being to finicky and therefore should pay myself?

you should be able to trim on the small chainring and highest gear to stop rubbing. On the large ring there's no trim down unless you trim up (which isn't needed if you're OK on large chainring highest gear) as it drops the chain.

There may some give as the cables bed in on a new bike so you may need to adjust again.

sparklehedgehog

or just do this:

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techd ... 696762.pdf

BigLights

Make sure it's set up well. I also have a Gran Fondo with 105. My LBS replaced the wires (they come with fairly average ones, they said).

They also pointed out that 105 is designed for a triple, so when you're in the big cog you need to click up (you'll feel a click click), then do a sort of half click back down, otherwise it's slightly out of synch.

That fixed it totally for me.

chris_bass

BigLights wrote:

Make sure it's set up well. I also have a Gran Fondo with 105. My LBS replaced the wires (they come with fairly average ones, they said).

They also pointed out that 105 is designed for a triple, so when you're in the big cog you need to click up (you'll feel a click click), then do a sort of half click back down, otherwise it's slightly out of synch.

That fixed it totally for me.

its not designed for a triple (unless of course you have a triple), that is the trim that people have mentioned earlier in the thread.

darkhairedlord

BigLights wrote:

Make sure it's set up well. I also have a Gran Fondo with 105. My LBS replaced the wires (they come with fairly average ones, they said).

They also pointed out that 105 is designed for a triple, so when you're in the big cog you need to click up (you'll feel a click click), then do a sort of half click back down, otherwise it's slightly out of synch.

That fixed it totally for me.

The 5700 is for a double and the 5703 is for a triple. The shimano tech docs also have different part numbers for the main components in the left hand 5700 and 5703 shifters.

Tiltzey Boy

CiB wrote:

.......You could bin the 105s and fit Di2 instead, that does all the trimming for you.

Do this ^^...

....then, instead of binning the 105 group, send it to me to put on my bike and I'll test it for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1964johnr

Scanned the £14.99 bill to Ribble and they refunded me the cost of my lbs mechanic re setting the front derailleur. I now have the use of three more gears than I had previously. Much better set up and doesn't cause me any front mech rubbing issues. Very good customer service from Ribble.