Mtb guiding

Cqc

Hi all,
Thinking of having a crack at doing some guiding around my local trails this summer and was wondering some things such as; what spares should I bring along, how much should I charge per hour, do I need a wilderness first aid qualification, etc? Any other tips much appreciated.

miceden

Not sure about here in the UK but if you want to do this type of thing on the continent its a legal requirement that you attain certain qualifications before you are (legally) allowed to guide a group of people.

If you take a group out you are assuming a certain level of responsibility for them - you have to ensure the ride is safe & within individuals abilities, you have to be able to administer first aid, you probably should know what to do in the case of emergencies like say if fog suddenly comes in and you get lost on the side of mountain (over the top example I know), you might even need some sort of public liability insurance.

This might be useful, and may be an idea to talk to British Cycling more - http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/mtbleadership

Not trying to be negative and shoot your idea down, by all means pursue it, just check all the legal boxes first.

As for what to charge I've no idea, in terms of spares i'd take the normal things - puncture repair, tubes, pump, brake and gear cable, emergency mech hanger, etc

Cqc

Hmmm thanks,not sure about the legal side, I'll look that up, but no real danger of getting lost as its in my local woods in surrey so no extreme weather

iwilldoit

Hi.
Yes make sure you have a public liability insurance in place as well as your first aid stuff and if any youngsters a CRB and child protection policy, all this stuff isn't to protect the customer it's to protect you, a lot of slip and trip merchants about.

Tigger con carne

When I trained as a Sky Ride leader last year they mentioned that there was some off-road training for MTB rides that they did. I don't know where they do it though, but you could contact them via http://www.goskyride.com

Cqc

Cheers, gonna have to think twice about doing it if there are all these legal issues though...

cooldad

Just take them in the woods.

Make sure you have rohypnol, duct tape and a spade though.

Cqc

Rohypnol?

cooldad

Never mind. Belongs in Crudcatcher.

contented

iwilldoit wrote:

Hi.
Yes make sure you have a public liability insurance in place as well as your first aid stuff and if any youngsters a CRB and child protection policy, all this stuff isn't to protect the customer it's to protect you, a lot of slip and trip merchants about.

Top advice that. The first aid course and the public liability insurance are both priority. The insurance will be tricky to get if you are not setting up a company though. That could be a minefield, who is at fault if someone's poor bike maintenance causes them to be injured on your trip when their wheel comes off? You would have to personally check the bikes and be accountable for them - simply getting people to sign a waiver won't work.
The basic CRB (now DBS) isn't usually enough these days, you may need to have the enhanced one for it to be of any benefit. It checks whether you are being / have been investigated even if nothing has come of it yet. You'd need that one if becoming a Guide with ultimate responsibility, for example giving first aid to a child.
It can be hard to obtain the enhanced check as a normal member of the public.

You'd also have to be sure you are allowed to perform a chargeable service on the Council's (or whomever owns it) land.
What you're suggesting would be cool in NZ for example, but here it'll be a nightmare. Too many rules, too many people looking to fall over. Too many arseholes.

iwilldoit

I was once asked on a FA course how long would I keep an accident report form for? I replied as I had never had to of filled one in most prob for ever, then they asked what about if it was a child, same reply from me.

Then they told me if a child was injured in my care even if it was supposedly there fault and their parent said not to worry, the child has up to the age of 21 to make their own mind up if they would like to sue me, when their classified as an adult

To be honest sometimes it makes you wonder is it all worth the while.

Cqc

iwilldoit wrote:

To be honest sometimes it makes you wonder is it all worth the while.

Well now i know its clearly not thanks to all your help, so the surrey hills shall remain unguided.

Clank

Cqc wrote:

iwilldoit wrote:

To be honest sometimes it makes you wonder is it all worth the while.

Well now i know its clearly not thanks to all your help, so the surrey hills shall remain unguided.

Are you serious?

I typed 'mountain bike guiding' into Google and in under 10 mins found four companies offering MTB guiding in the Surrey hills (including prices), as well as all the links I'd need to start up guiding myself. Some shops offer guiding as a complimentary service. And there's always people you meet on forums who ride in groups exploring that particular area. There's guiding-a-plenty in the Surrey hills.

If you want to take money, you need to take the initiative, first.

Cqc

The main sections are guided, yeah, but my area isn't and in my view is the best section

Chunkers1980

Well there's your initiative then. Bet it is not though.

cooldad

Apart from the packs of wolves, and odd bear, SH is pretty tame, so just riding with people who know the area is enough.
We have a few experts on the area, and don't even charge to show people round.

welshkev

If I show you around my local woods will you pay me £50? No? Then why would someone pay you to do it?

kajjal

cooldad wrote:

Just take them in the woods.

Make sure you have rohypnol, duct tape and a spade though.

You sound like the ideal guide

The Northern Monkey

welshkev wrote:

If I show you around my local woods will you pay me £50? No? Then why would someone pay you to do it?

Which is why I wont pay to join a mtb group...

cooldad

The Northern Monkey wrote:

welshkev wrote:

If I show you around my local woods will you pay me £50? No? Then why would someone pay you to do it?

Which is why I wont pay to join a mtb group...

I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members.

Groucho Marx

BigAl

Cqc wrote:

Rohypnol?

Really?

Maybe you're very young or perhaps at Public School?

paul.skibum

BigAl wrote:

Cqc wrote:

Rohypnol?

Really?

Maybe you're very young or perhaps at Public School?

Maybe he's just down with the kids and only knows it by the street name.

paul.skibum

Oh and you could check out guiding quallies such as the OTC (if they still exist) to give you a formal qualification, worth getting a mtb skills cert too perhaps (PMBI if they are running a course in the UK are good) to add another string to the bow.

Advertise and consider some sort of public liability insurance and exclusion of liability waiver for your guests to sign.

paulbox

Cqc wrote:

Hi all,
Thinking of having a crack at doing some guiding around my local trails this summer and was wondering some things such as; what spares should I bring along, how much should I charge per hour, do I need a wilderness first aid qualification, etc? Any other tips much appreciated.

Hello mate, I joined an MTB club a few years ago as a way of riding different areas without having to make up my own routes / follow maps etc. Last year they asked a group of us to do some training to enable us to lead groups of novice/intermediate riders in the Chiltern Hills.

We did the CTC MTB Trail Leader course: http://www.ctc.org.uk/courses-and-train ... ader-award
And more recently the ITC Outdoor first aid training course: http://www.itcfirstaid.org.uk/courses.asp?category=2

The trail leaders course isn't rocket science, it covers all the basics including pre-ride bike checks, helmet checks etc. and does provide you with some good skills in terms of briefing the group on upcoming sections, how to deal with incidents and problem riders (over enthusiasm!). The instructor was cool, realised that all of us could build a bike from scratch so didn't make us demonstrate how to fix a puncture and that sort of stuff, but did ensure that we all knew what we needed to carry in terms of fixing the majority of mechanicals and that we knew how to use them. He also made you think about how to manage a group, may sound stupid, but never over estimate how a group of riders will behave.

The first aid course was excellent. Trainers were mainly ex-military and a really good group of people. Very hands-on practice, practice, practice training style which is a lot more effective than sitting in a class room. They even made us go out in to the cold wet winter weather to practice scenarios laying in the mud...

We don't charge for our open rides so not sure if that changes things much. We don't take under 16's unless their parent(s) accompany them. Everybody has to sign a disclaimer before they ride and all rides are publicised with distance, difficulty levels etc. We do have insurance, but I don't know the details.

The other tough thing is putting together completely legal rides, i.e. no footpaths. Such a PITA when trying to link up a good ride without too many road sections... You also have to think about short-cuts if some of the group are struggling, carrying first aid kits, emergency shelters and the like, not to mention spare parts and tools.

There are also some strange behaviours to contend with, was helping with a ride yesterday and mentioned to somebody that waterproof socks are a really good investment for winter riding. He replied that he had got a pair at home but didn't think he'd need them. I just wondered how wet it has to be before he pulls them out of the drawer...