Greg, now do you believe that Climate Change is real?
Comments
-
According to the Greens, if you don't sign up to CC, you should be sacked from any Government post
Well, it's one way to get consensus within the Govt, I suppose.
What's next after that? Deportation? Sending doubters to re-education camps?
And CC advocates wonder why their message meets cynicism...0 -
We don't have a message, we have science, and it works, b!tches!Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:And CC advocates wonder why their message meets cynicism...
0 -
Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:According to the Greens, if you don't sign up to CC, you should be sacked from any Government post
Well, it's one way to get consensus within the Govt, I suppose.
What's next after that? Deportation? Sending doubters to re-education camps?
And CC advocates wonder why their message meets cynicism...
Do you object to the science, or just what people are doing with it?0 -
Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:According to the Greens, if you don't sign up to CC, you should be sacked from any Government post
Well, it's one way to get consensus within the Govt, I suppose.
What's next after that? Deportation? Sending doubters to re-education camps?
And CC advocates wonder why their message meets cynicism...
Episode two from climate wars
It's a documentary from a few years back and the presenter deals with a lot of the arguments from skeptics in, IMHO, a reasonable and intelligent manner.
It's an hour long but it's well worth sitting down and watching if you can make the time."That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0 -
Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:According to the Greens, if you don't sign up to CC, you should be sacked from any Government post
Well, it's one way to get consensus within the Govt, I suppose.
What's next after that? Deportation? Sending doubters to re-education camps?
And CC advocates wonder why their message meets cynicism...
You do love a bit of hyperbole Greg. I think you would agree that if the Government has arrived at the decision (by whatever means) that AGW is enough of a likelihood to warrant modifying government policy, both to try and reduce the magnitude of AGW and mitigate its effects, then it is a little odd to appoint an MP who is openly sceptical of AGW, as Environment Secretary. You wouldn't expect one of the MPs who voted against the gay marriage bill to then be put in charge of implementing it.
I agree that the way it has been publicised makes it seem like a very doctrinaire standpoint, but if the Government as a whole has reached a particular point of view, having taken advice from those far more qualified to comment, then senior figures within that government need to be in step with that point of view, at least in their public capacity.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
So, I was out with my son at a farm and looking at an overly aggressive chicken I got to thinking about this some more.notsoblue wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:
The two sentences don't seem to make sense. Firstly you say no, but then you go onto say yes more oxygen makes creatures bigger.notsoblue wrote:
No, its because a higher partial pressure of oxygen in the atmosphere allows for longer diffusion distances within respiratory tissues (I think).DonDaddyD wrote:
So if we grew our own humans and while at the embryo and fetus stage we exposed them to 10 times the amount of oxygen would they then be 10 times taller?Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:Climate change - small "c" - is undoubtedly real. The climate is dynamic. That's its nature. Ice ages came and went. That's climate change, but not caused by us. Ever wondered why the dinosaurs were so big? Because the atmosphere contained a much higher percentage of oxygen back in the day.
:shock:
The size of animals is limited in part by the efficiency of their respiratory system. Vertebrates generally have more specialised circulatory systems that can distribute respiratory gasses pretty efficiently to and from the extremities of the body. Invertebrates less so. So their size is more limited by the relative proportion of Oxygen in the atmosphere. This is why during periods in history when Oxygen was more abundant, insects used to grow really huge.
OK so if the atmosphere had the same level of oxygen as the dinosaurs had, would we be bigger?
Sorry, wasn't written very clearly.
Theres a bunch of factors that can place limitations on the size of species within an evolutionary context; for example the biomechanics of bone morphology, the ecology the species evolves within in, and the relative abundance of respiratory gasses.
If oxygen was more abundant, it would reduce the effect of that particular limitation and potentially allow that species to evolve into others that would be larger over time (Though other limitations may still be present, such as the ecology or behaviour strategy, e.g. being larger might make an animal more vulnerable to predation in some contexts). So thats over many generations. What you're suggesting is making a change within a single generation. The only effect this would have would be a bunch of dead babies, because unfortunately, Oxygen is pretty toxic at 10x normal levels.
So I guess the answer is, in the long term it may cause some species to be larger, but in the short term it wouldn't have any effect other than the morally abhorrent.
Probably not because oxygen partial pressure isn't what is limiting our size. For a long time it was diet, I think. Maybe now its mainly sexual selection. I think the variations we see in heights these days kinda shows that it can be many different things, but oxygen level probably isn't a major influence.OK so if the atmosphere had the same level of oxygen as the dinosaurs had, would we be bigger?
Way I see it playing out is like this:
Russia goes to war on Ukraine, Europe headed by Germany and France come to Ukraine's defence. North Korea says it wants a piece of the action and this pisses the US off and suddenly China and the US are at war. China prove overwhelming too powerful with their mecha monters and powerzords. The US reveal that they've been augmenting humans, code name "Steve John Rodgers 117" for decades and release an army of super soldiers (all ranked Captain Chief Petty Officer) to find the hordes of Chinese mecha's and zords. War ends, Africa and South America becomes the richest countries in the World and the Middle East a safe haven. Sadly however, the Chinese mechazords, they merged, become self aware and the Super Soldiers turn into vampires and zombies.
I survive and set up a small independent country called D-opolis, its protected by gigantic chickens capable of merking any super soldier vamp zombie or self-aware mecha.
Now then to perfect these gigantic chickens I take dinosaur DNA and splice it with modern day avian DNA ala Jurassic Park (because of that film, we know they are genetically related). But I got to thinking, if the atmosphere is different now to what it was millions - 100 millions of years ago, would dinosaurs (or dinosaur sized chickens) find it harder to breath?
If that is the case does that mean Jurassic Park is wrong? (Lump in my throat, my childhood just died a little).Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
an leslie @mrianleslie · 4h
Ha ha: this sculpture in Berlin (by Isaac Cordal) depicts politicians discussing global warming pic.twitter.com/nIIr31doiE
That's quite clever.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:So, I was out with my son at a farm and looking at an overly aggressive chicken I got to thinking about this some more.
Way I see it playing out is like this:
Russia goes to war on Ukraine, Europe headed by Germany and France come to Ukraine's defence. North Korea says it wants a piece of the action and this pisses the US off and suddenly China and the US are at war. China prove overwhelming too powerful with their mecha monters and powerzords. The US reveal that they've been augmenting humans, code name "Steve John Rodgers 117" for decades and release an army of super soldiers (all ranked Captain Chief Petty Officer) to find the hordes of Chinese mecha's and zords. War ends, Africa and South America becomes the richest countries in the World and the Middle East a safe haven. Sadly however, the Chinese mechazords, they merged, become self aware and the Super Soldiers turn into vampires and zombies.
I survive and set up a small independent country called D-opolis, its protected by gigantic chickens capable of merking any super soldier vamp zombie or self-aware mecha.
Now then to perfect these gigantic chickens I take dinosaur DNA and splice it with modern day avian DNA ala Jurassic Park (because of that film, we know they are genetically related). But I got to thinking, if the atmosphere is different now to what it was millions - 100 millions of years ago, would dinosaurs (or dinosaur sized chickens) find it harder to breath?
If that is the case does that mean Jurassic Park is wrong? (Lump in my throat, my childhood just died a little).
Interesting you should ask that...
http://geology.com/usgs/amber/The Oxygen-Rich Cretaceous Atmosphere
Analyses of the gases in these bubbles show that the Earth's atmosphere, 67 million years ago, contained nearly 35 percent oxygen compared to present levels of 21 percent. Results are based upon more than 300 analyses by USGS scientists of Cretaceous, Tertiary, and recent-age amber from 16 world sites.* The oldest amber in this study is about 130 million years old.
Significance of Cretaceous Oxygen Levels?
The consequences of an elevated oxygen level during Cretaceous time are speculative. Did the higher oxygen support the now extinct dinosaurs? Their demise was gradual in the transition from late Cretaceous to early Tertiary times, as was the decrease in oxygen content of the atmosphere.0 -
Insects have holes on their bodies to which oxygen passively passes in and CO2 out, as a result concentration of these gasses become relevant to there maximum size.
As a creature gets bigger the ratio between surface area and volume decreases. In more complex organisms, such as humans we have resolved this issue by evolving aveoli in an active respiratory system. Birds use a circulatory system which is even more superior then ours due to the higher oxygen demands needed for flying at altitude where the air is thinner.
size of land animals is also related to this ratio but for heat rather then oxygen, the hihger volume body creates more heat which has to escape though a smaller surface area, thats why so many animals have evolved heat loss mechanisms, panting, sweating etc.
a Dino wouldn't suffer from this as significantly due to its ectothermic nature and as a result theoretically would be able to survive today. so don't worry. Although it would most probably be limited to hot tropical regions (for the inverse reason)
Most Birds however are limited in size because of the necessity of a low weight for flight. It is unlikely the gigantic chickens would be motile enough to hunt down the super vampire zombie soldiers, although you could augment them with electric cyborg enhancements to make them fast like Bruce Lee.
Gigantic Kung Fu Battery Chickens in other words0
