FSA Pig headset

kingie3105

I got a new frame which came with an FSA Pig headset, which feels quite grainy, so I will replace it. I am 100% it's 1 1/8", but only 90% sure its threadless, so I believe i could out a Chris King headset?? However I'm not that rich so what other alternatives are available?
Cheers

nicklouse

No thread pigs available.

But there are a few different types so make sure you get the right one.

stubs

Superstar do some nice shiny headsets for not a lot of money http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/index.php?cPath=25&osCsid=gel7aq31hv62l573g3qqt01hk7

Try the Cane creek headset finder http://www.canecreek.com/headset-fit-finder

jimothy78

kingie3105 wrote:

I got a new frame which came with an FSA Pig headset, which feels quite grainy, so I will replace it.

Have you tried servicing it? Might be worth a go, as the sealing isn't great on The Pig, and it may just be dirty or need new balls. Easier to service than to fit a new headset and crown race ( although if the bearing surfaces themselves are pitted, then it is new headset time).

I am 100% it's 1 1/8", but only 90% sure its threadless

yes, it's a standard threadless 1 1/8" headset, so there's tonnes of options for replacing it. I'm now using an FSA Orbit XL II, which has much better seals and cartridge bearings, and is no trouble at all.

This one would also fit, and has cartridge bearings, and isn't too expensive:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/octa ... -prod88451

kingie3105

Jimothy, the actual bearing was bent and quite a few of the ball bearings were missing, so definitely need a new one. i was looking at maybe a Chris King one, are they any good for the money? they also come in a wide range of colours, but so do the ones stubs suggested... Might splash out and call it a "Valentines Day present to myself"!!

cooldad

Orbit XLII that jimothy78 uses are excellent, and you can get them for under £20 on Ebay. I haven't used anything else for years.

jimothy78

kingie3105 wrote:

Jimothy, the actual bearing was bent and quite a few of the ball bearings were missing, so definitely need a new one.

Not sure what you mean by the "actual bearing" being bent. Do you mean the cage (the bit of metal that holds the balls together in a ring shape). Agreed, that's more of a problem, but it's not insurmountable, as you can buy new cages with balls as a unit (about £8 for the lower cage, £2 for the upper, IIRC). But like I said before, the important thing is the condition of the surfaces the balls roll on (the "crown race" on the fork steerer, and the upper race at the top of the headset, which sits on top of the upper ball bearings).

Anyway, as it looks like you've made your mind up to have a new headset, the most important thing is that you get one that fits your headtube and fork. As stated before, you need to check that you get a conventional 1 1/8" threadless headset - avoid anything that used the words integrated, semi-integrated or zero-stack in it's description - those are for wider diameter headtubes. I recommend you get one with sealed cartridge bearings, rather than caged ball bearings, as the latter tend to need more maintenance. If you want to spend more money to have something shiny and colurful, that's your business, but I personally don't believe there's any reason that an £80 item is going to be that much better than a £20 one.

kingie3105

That's exactly what I meant. I might buy a couple of new cages, because I don't even know if I will be able to get the bearing shells out... That would be the main part of whether I will get a new one or not.

I think a cheap-ish headset will be best, because I need to save up for a set of forks!

jimothy78

Bargain here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FSA-Orbit-XL- ... 19e8571803

cooldad

For £2 more I'd get a new one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FSA-Orbit-XL- ... 43c26fed1a

jimothy78

cooldad wrote:

For £2 more I'd get a new one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FSA-Orbit-XL- ... 43c26fed1a

Doh! Thought I'd searched for new ones only - clearly not... :roll:

BTW, Kingie - if you're planning on replacing the forks, then I would keep the old headset going as best you can for now, and plan to install your new headset at the same time as the new forks - that way you don't have to worry about switching the crown race over from one set of forks to the other. If you can't find the right caged balls for the Pig, you can make do with loose balls (1/4"s in the lower cup and 5/32"s in the upper - it's a bit more fiddly (using good sticky grease helps), but you should be able to pick them up at any local bike shop for a pound or so for a little bag that will have more than enough in it.

cooldad

jimothy78 wrote:

cooldad wrote:

For £2 more I'd get a new one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FSA-Orbit-XL- ... 43c26fed1a

Doh! Thought I'd searched for new ones only - clearly not... :roll:

I normally keep one on my watchlist. Bought a couple from them, absolute bargain - cheaper than buying the bearings. Last time I couldn't even be bothered to change the cups. Just swapped the bearings. And used a nice shiny topcap.

jimothy78

cooldad wrote:

I normally keep one on my watchlist. Bought a couple from them, absolute bargain - cheaper than buying the bearings. Last time I couldn't even be bothered to change the cups. Just swapped the bearings. And used a nice shiny topcap.

Yep - at that price I may well just buy one to keep as a spare for when the time comes....

kingie3105

I need to take the old headset out if i do buy a new one... Which could be a problem in itself! That FSA Orbit seems really good value, might get one if i can get it out

jimothy78

kingie3105 wrote:

I need to take the old headset out if i do buy a new one... Which could be a problem in itself! That FSA Orbit seems really good value, might get one if i can get it out

It's not that difficult - although it's easier and safer with the right tool, with care you can do it with a large flat-head screwdriver and a rubber mallet. Waiting until you change the forks at least avoids having to remove the old crown race.

kingie3105

I still need to buy a pair of forks, Jimothy. I am planning on buying them but next weekend... Will this affect the Crown race if the forks are second hand?

jimothy78

I still need to buy a pair of forks, Jimothy. I am planning on buying them but next weekend... Will this affect the Crown race if the forks are second hand?

Depends on whether the forks you buy have one fitted or not. A lot of secondhand forks do, as people can't be arsed to remove them before sale.

Again, not really a problem, as you can remove them by careful application of the screwdriver and hammer method.

As for fitting the new one, a shortish section of plastic plumping pipe (such as waste pipe, etc) makes an effective drift which allows you to fit the new one with no risk of damage.

kingie3105

Even if the forks come with a crown race I should replace it with a new one?

jimothy78

kingie3105 wrote:

Even if the forks come with a crown race I should replace it with a new one?

Yes - the crown race is an integral part of the headset, and has to perfectly match the bearings within the lower cup. Unfortunately, although the outer and inner diameters of any two given headsets may match perfectly, there's no "standard" for the internals (bearing sizes, angles and so on), so no way of telling if another crown race will fit your headset, and although it may appear to be a match to the naked eye, running the headset with the wrong crown race may well cause permanent damage.

kingie3105

So it is probably worthwhile buying a new headset anyway, just so the crown race is the right type?

jimothy78

Just had a "road-to-damascus" moment and realised something I failed to pick up on earlier - you bought a secondhand frame with the old headset left in, didn't you? I had previously been assuming that you had the forks with the crown race as well, but re-reading it I now think that's not the case.

If I'm right (now) then yes, you actually have no choice but to buy a new headset to go with what ever fork you end up buying. You can't use the original headset without its specific crown race. The seller should have removed the crown race and sent it with the frame and headset, but some people can be so thoughtless. You could probably buy a replacement, but as you've already stated that the bearings are shot, then it's not going to be worth it. Knock the old headset cups out and bin them, buy yourself that XL II Cooldad linked to earlier and you'll be ready for your new forks.

kingie3105

Taking the headset out was fun and games! I tried with a screwdriver, it worked for the top cup, but gave up after chipping one trying with the bottom cup... I then resorted to using some piping, but none fit! Then I cut my brothers scooter up for the steerer, which after a bit of persuasion, and mushrooming the end, i managed to eventually get it out! I just hope the new headset will be easier to put in!

cooldad

Easy. If you don't have a rubber mallet, get an old bit of wood to use as a buffer and just whack it with a hammer.

jimothy78

kingie3105 wrote:

Taking the headset out was fun and games! I tried with a screwdriver, it worked for the top cup, but gave up after chipping one trying with the bottom cup... I then resorted to using some piping, but none fit! Then I cut my brothers scooter up for the steerer, which after a bit of persuasion, and mushrooming the end, i managed to eventually get it out! I just hope the new headset will be easier to put in!

Yes, you'll find it's easy enough to fit a new one, just put one big block of wood under the headtube to support it, and use another to cushion the top cup as you knock it in. Take your time, and place your hammer strokes carefully in order to keep the cup going in straight. Once one's in, just flip the frame over and repeat for the lower cup. As said before, fitting the crown race is the trickiest bit. Go to a hardware store and pick up a length of plastic pipe (IIRC about 36mm inner diameter) - cut it slightly longer than the steerer on your forks and then use it with a mallet to knock the crown race into place.

stubs

You can make a headset press out of a length of studding, 2 x nuts and a handful of repair washers, total cost from a builders merchant about £3 or £4 why the hell would you start knocking delicate precision machined components in with a hammer. Do you also install your bearings with a hammer or your stem, bars and anything else. Jeez have a bit of mechanical sympathy.

Chunkers1980

Don't think anyone is suggesting hitting it directly with a hammer

stubs

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Don't think anyone is suggesting hitting it directly with a hammer

I know but your still trying to install a precision machined part with a hammer/mallet into a fairly delicate frame, why risk damaging your several hundred pound frame. If I saw anyone approaching my bikes with a whacking stick they would spend time in A&E getting it removed from somewhere dark.

cooldad

My hammer and bit of wood works better than my home made headset press.

kingie3105

The frame was £43, stubs. Nothing really worth shouting about, but I understand where you're coming from. Could you post a picture so I can visualise it?
I have put headsets in other types of bike (which you people don't like) using a piece of wood and a hammer, but it could be easier using a home-made headset-putter-inner

cooldad

A length of threaded rod, a couple of big washers, and nuts on the ends. Do one cup at a time or it's difficult to keep them straight.

But hammers are more fun.

Fancy one



Basic one

stubs

kingie3105 wrote:

The frame was £43, stubs. Nothing really worth shouting about, but I understand where you're coming from. Could you post a picture so I can visualise it?
I have put headsets in other types of bike (which you people don't like) using a piece of wood and a hammer, but it could be easier using a home-made headset-putter-inner

This is a headset press I made about 15 years ago. 1 x M12 coach bolt, 1 x M12 nut, 1 x M12 washer and a piece of 20mm MDF cut to size and holes drilled. Total cost dont know but about the cost of a pint.


head press by fastmongrel, on Flickr

I made a slightly posher one for a mate a few years back 200mm of M12 studding (a threaded bar with no head on it) 3 x M12 bolts 2 x M12 nylon washers and a selection of M12 repair washers of different sizes. Threadlock 1 nut onto studding near one end fit a big repair washer and a big nylon washer and screw down 2nd nut so they lock against 1st nut. The 3rd nut plus a repair washer and nylon washer are screwed down to push headset cups into frame. I havent got a photo of the posh version I am afraid but if you google home made headset press you will find loads of pics like this one