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Garmin vs Sky (non-doping related)

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  • ProssPross Posts: 26,434
    Macaloon wrote:
    Climb times are best way we have of comparing today's performance against that of convicted/confessed dopers. Since top riders always ride full gas on all climbs, we can ignore variables like wind, and distractions like race situation. Froome's 87th all-time fastest ascent of Alpe d'Huez is as suspicious as his rides up Ax 3 and Ventoux because...

    ...it shows he is so juiced up he didn't even need to put in any effort on what was supposed to be the key stage as he knew he could take back time whenever he wanted.
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    Pross wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Climb times are best way we have of comparing today's performance against that of convicted/confessed dopers. Since top riders always ride full gas on all climbs, we can ignore variables like wind, and distractions like race situation. Froome's 87th all-time fastest ascent of Alpe d'Huez is as suspicious as his rides up Ax 3 and Ventoux because...

    ...it shows he is so juiced up he didn't even need to put in any effort on what was supposed to be the key stage as he knew he could take back time whenever he wanted.

    Good try. But epic fail :lol: Climb Times theory would be refuted if you allowed riders to vary their efforts. We can't have that.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • rayjayrayjay Posts: 1,384
    Macaloon wrote:
    It's threads like this that gave me the dangerously elevated 5ky values in the first place. Nevertheless, complete the following phrase...

    Climb times are best way we have of comparing today's performance against that of convicted/confessed dopers. Since top riders always ride full gas on all climbs, we can ignore variables like wind, and distractions like race situation. Froome's 87th all-time fastest ascent of Alpe d'Huez is as suspicious as his rides up Ax 3 and Ventoux because...

    Why waste your time responding to moronic claims regarding times up Ventoux and Ax 3 while ignoring the equally startling time up Alpe D'Huez?


    It just proves that both side's can cherry pick to back up their view.. That's what you are doing.

    A lot of your post's are arrogant to your views.
    You could be wrong.

    Riders are still getting busted.

    Riders who have hardly set the peloton alight the last year or so.

    Dopers getting their asses kicked by non dopers.

    You believe that if you want.

    I don't
  • This thread still going on? How sad.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • This thread still going on? How sad.

    Tragic you were forced to read and comment upon it really.

    A decent debate interests me far more than the Tour de Despotic Gulf State, sadly.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,179
    rayjay wrote:
    It just proves that both side's can cherry pick to back up their view..

    Exactly
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • This thread still going on? How sad.

    Tragic you were forced to read and comment upon it really.

    A decent debate interests me far more than the Tour de Despotic Gulf State, sadly.

    If it was a decent debate then I'd agree.

    Good work on your figures earlier in the thread.

    I have posted a couple of Simoni background for you on the other thread.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Thanks on both counts.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    rayjay wrote:
    It just proves that both side's can cherry pick to back up their view.. That's what you are doing.

    A lot of your post's are arrogant to your views.
    You could be wrong.

    Riders are still getting busted.

    Riders who have hardly set the peloton alight the last year or so.

    Dopers getting their asses kicked by non dopers.

    I have a lot to be arrogant about. You appear to have a deep reservoir of childish logic. Well met.

    Why are the Ventoux and Ax3 times more relevant to Froome's performance than Alpe d'Huez? You need to answer this question.

    As to the bolded: I'm assuming you mean Contador, the second best climber on his team last year? If not, please give me one example.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • rayjayrayjay Posts: 1,384
    Macaloon wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    It just proves that both side's can cherry pick to back up their view.. That's what you are doing.

    A lot of your post's are arrogant to your views.
    You could be wrong.

    Riders are still getting busted.

    Riders who have hardly set the peloton alight the last year or so.

    Dopers getting their asses kicked by non dopers.

    I have a lot to be arrogant about. You appear to have a deep reservoir of childish logic. Well met.

    Why are the Ventoux and Ax3 times more relevant to Froome's performance than Alpe d'Huez? You need to answer this question.

    As to the bolded: I'm assuming you mean Contador, the second best climber on his team last year? If not, please give me one example.



    Is It arrogance ? I tend to think it's more ignorance and cherry picking to suit your view.

    I have listened to and taken on board other peoples comment's without resorting to insulting CHILDISH remarks.

    Enjoy :lol: :roll:
  • ratsbeyfusratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    Can someone let me know when it's safe to return to the Pro Race forum?


    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • ratsbeyfus wrote:
    Can someone let me know when it's safe to return to the Pro Race forum?


    Shall one of us leave out some cheese and biscuits, Ratty?
  • dsoutardsoutar Posts: 1,746
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    Can someone let me know when it's safe to return to the Pro Race forum?

    When a couple of indiviuals get bored of trolling - so judging on the current output don't hold your breath
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    rayjay wrote:
    Is It arrogance ? I tend to think it's more ignorance and cherry picking to suit your view.

    I have listened to and taken on board other peoples comment's without resorting to insulting CHILDISH remarks.

    Here's where you are being childish. As an adult, I can see that it's preposterous to use the Alpe d'Huez climb time in support of suspicions that Froome rides clean.

    Do you agree that using the Ventoux and AX3 climb times, in support of suspicions that he is doping, is preposterous for exactly the same reasons?
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    Macaloon wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    Is It arrogance ? I tend to think it's more ignorance and cherry picking to suit your view.

    I have listened to and taken on board other peoples comment's without resorting to insulting CHILDISH remarks.

    Here's where you are being childish. As an adult, I can see that it's preposterous to use the Alpe d'Huez climb time in support of suspicions that Froome rides clean.

    Do you agree that using the Ventoux and AX3 climb times, in support of suspicions that he is doping, is preposterous for exactly the same reasons?

    Unfortunately climb times are the only quick tool we have to compare riders of different eras. And to some extent, it makes sense to use them as a quick probe of rider performance, anything more and it's really pushing it.

    I think it's reasonable to use them as a discussion piece, so long as you don't immediately start pulling the x rode faster than y who doped, therefore x is doping card. You have to go x rode faster than y, they were riding in similar conditions, this is backed up with video evidence z, and weather report w...therefore, the two performances are similar, which is concerning.

    But that requires a fair bit of effort, which is a lot less fun than cherry picking data and shouting doper, especially when someone's already cherry picked the data for you...
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • rayjayrayjay Posts: 1,384
    Macaloon wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    Is It arrogance ? I tend to think it's more ignorance and cherry picking to suit your view.

    I have listened to and taken on board other peoples comment's without resorting to insulting CHILDISH remarks.

    Here's where you are being childish. As an adult, I can see that it's preposterous to use the Alpe d'Huez climb time in support of suspicions that Froome rides clean.

    Do you agree that using the Ventoux and AX3 climb times, in support of suspicions that he is doping, is preposterous for exactly the same reasons?
    Macaloon wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    Is It arrogance ? I tend to think it's more ignorance and cherry picking to suit your view.

    I have listened to and taken on board other peoples comment's without resorting to insulting CHILDISH remarks.

    Here's where you are being childish. As an adult, I can see that it's preposterous to use the Alpe d'Huez climb time in support of suspicions that Froome rides clean.

    Do you agree that using the Ventoux and AX3 climb times, in support of suspicions that he is doping, is preposterous for exactly the same reasons?

    :roll: You are seriously blinded by your own arrogance
  • Does anyone know of another clean rider that can climb and time trial as fast as Armstrong?
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,658
    The Truth wrote:
    Does anyone know of another clean rider that can climb and time trial as fast as Armstrong?
    No. I don't know a dirty one either. (PS I don't think Armstrong was clean - you may have missed the memo)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95 wrote:
    The Truth wrote:
    Does anyone know of another clean rider that can climb and time trial as fast as Armstrong?
    No. I don't know a dirty one either. (PS I don't think Armstrong was clean - you may have missed the memo)

    Starting to think Armstrong might have been clean. If he was doping he would be able to outperform clean riders like Froome.

    You're right that there are very few that can do both at the level of Lance. If Froome was riding in that era he would have easily been Armstrongs biggest rival.
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    The Truth wrote:
    Starting to think Armstrong might have been clean. If he was doping he would be able to outperform clean riders like Froome.

    You're right that there are very few that can do both at the level of Lance. If Froome was riding in that era he would have easily been Armstrongs biggest rival.

    Based on what? Even Quintana, who smoked Froome on Alpe d'Huez, didn't get within 2 mins of Armstrong's best time. Quintana took another 30s at Semnoz. And he only dropped 30s to Froome on Ventoux after being solo for 12km. Quintana is more than a match for Froome on the climbs, never mind Armstrong.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • Macaloon wrote:
    The Truth wrote:
    Starting to think Armstrong might have been clean. If he was doping he would be able to outperform clean riders like Froome.

    You're right that there are very few that can do both at the level of Lance. If Froome was riding in that era he would have easily been Armstrongs biggest rival.

    Based on what? Even Quintana, who smoked Froome on Alpe d'Huez, didn't get within 2 mins of Armstrong's best time. Quintana took another 30s at Semnoz. And he only dropped 30s to Froome on Ventoux after being solo for 12km. Quintana is more than a match for Froome on the climbs, never mind Armstrong.

    Froome wasn't riding at max on Alpe d'huez or Semnoz, the tour was already over by then. To be fair, Armstrong probably didn't go full gas on all the climbs either.

    That said, Quintana is very good yes. He would have been a good climber in the Armstrong era as well. Maybe a Beloki.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,658
    The Truth wrote:
    To be fair, Armstrong probably didn't go full gas on all the climbs either.
    This post is like that bit in 2001: A Space Odyssey where the apes start using bones as tools.
    Twitter: @RichN95
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