SRAM red or Dura ace 9000?

Andescolombianos

Hello all, I am struggling to make the decision on buying sram resort dura ace 9000, if anyone could give real experience and knowledge about both group sets I would be grateful, specs, weights, durability, shifting etc...

ride_whenever

DA9000, the shifting is just In a different league. However that is probably due to the cables, I suspect red22 is lighter but most of that will be the cranks.

I wouldn't put much stock in the yaw front mech as I still wouldn't advocate cross chaining with expensive cassettes.

Both are equal fuckers to set up.

Hate the look of the da though.


However, it depends on your preference for shifting, do you like double tap???

DiscoBoy

Both are exellent.

Red is lighter
Dura Ace looks better (in my opinion)
Double tap takes some getting used to
The DA cassettes aren't very durable, so if you get DA, replace it with a SRAM cassette when it breaks
If you get DA, make sure you get the 9001 shifters (I think all the DA for sale now will be 9001, but make sure)
If you want hydraulic brakes, be aware that there is a recall on red stuff.

djhermer

Both are exellent.

You won't be upset with either choice. SRAM red looks better (IMO) and is lighter (we're talkin gnats cock).

Double tap is excellent, does not take getting used to and is probably the most intuitive of all groupset shifting methods. It's obvious. It works. You know when it's shifted.

I currently run SRAM red, DA, chorus and record. SRAM is my personal favourite.

None of this helps you as it's so subjective.

But you did ask!

caadybrompton

I have Red22 and love the set. Haven't tried DA9000.
Discoboy's post contains good advice.
DA cassette has a carbon carrier in between some of the cogs and has broken/snapped or starts making creaking noises for some.
There is a good thread on weightweenies about it which I posted on another thread. http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118879
For sure, I would run the Sram XG1190 cassette over the DA , if you were to choose the DA set.

Also , their shifting cables on the 9000sti's had issues after a while , with the cable snapping. Shimano have now released the 9001sti lever , although some say there is very little difference and fear the problem may not have been fully resolved.
If you do some research online , you will see a lot of threads on various forums with these issues rearing their head, again and again.

For me the simplicity and intuitiveness of one lever/doubletap makes sense and works. I tried Shimano and didn't like the two lever set up.
Like everything , find what works for you , and what feels right.
At the top end they are all (Sram,Shimano,Campag) great sets.

sloppyschleckonds

Ultegra or Force are more than good enough for a leisure rider

Grill

DiscoBoy wrote:

Both are exellent.

Red is lighter
Dura Ace looks better (in my opinion)
Double tap takes some getting used to
The DA cassettes aren't very durable, so if you get DA, replace it with a SRAM cassette when it breaks
If you get DA, make sure you get the 9001 shifters (I think all the DA for sale now will be 9001, but make sure)
If you want hydraulic brakes, be aware that there is a recall on red stuff.

Why would you do that instead of using the 6800 cassette? Doesn't really make sense...

Mccaria

Grill,

I run 9000 and now have a selection of 9000, 6800 and sram 1190 cassettes. The 1190 is a really nice piece of kit, it is light and looks very well machined, definitely an area where SRAM is ahead of Shimano in my view. It is expensive but it is nice.

Grill

It's almost 4 times the price of the 6800 cassette. Ludicrous. Plus if its anything like their 10 speed line it will be noisier.

Mccaria

On that basis the 9000 cassette is about 3x the cost of 6800. I think at the 9000/1190 level price isn't really the main determinant. Just putting the finishing touches to a 6800 equipped bike and compared to a 9000 equipped bike the differential is pretty minor.

bisoner

My experience of flakey SRAM Rival shifters tainted my view of SRAM. However, I really liked the comfort of the hoods and double tap worked well for me. I would consider SRAM Red for a future bike - Force and Red seem alot better constructed than Rival based on what I've read.

I now run 105 and DA (7900) on my two bikes. Not much difference between the two in reality other than the small weight penalty and the hefty price difference.

I would just shop around for the best deal. I'm sure the OP would be pleased with either groupset. Ultegra 6800 at sub £500 is definitely something to consider though.

imposter2.0

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Ultegra or Force are more than good enough for a leisure rider

And most amateur racers....

Grill

Mccaria wrote:

On that basis the 9000 cassette is about 3x the cost of 6800. I think at the 9000/1190 level price isn't really the main determinant. Just putting the finishing touches to a 6800 equipped bike and compared to a 9000 equipped bike the differential is pretty minor.

Agreed.

tp2000

I'd go with Dura Ace 9000

I've been riding a bike with it on since the start of the year and the shifting and braking performance is exceptional. I had been riding DI2 before that and it is seriously making me think about not going back. The front shifting is the closest i've come to DI2 and thats using it with a rotor chainset and rings as opposed to a Shimano one. Yes...it is that good.

One difference is that I'd just go with the ultegra cassette - for £50 its a steal and I can't see the point of the additional spend on DA. (that said, i am very interested to read about the SRAM compatability - something naively I hadn't even considered before!)

tonye_n

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Ultegra or Force are more than good enough for a leisure rider

Oh jaesuus! That's not what the OP asked!
:roll:

richiegwy

tp2000 wrote:

I'd go with Dura Ace 9000

I've been riding a bike with it on since the start of the year and the shifting and braking performance is exceptional. I had been riding DI2 before that and it is seriously making me think about not going back. The front shifting is the closest i've come to DI2 and thats using it with a rotor chainset and rings as opposed to a Shimano one. Yes...it is that good.

One difference is that I'd just go with the ultegra cassette - for £50 its a steal and I can't see the point of the additional spend on DA. (that said, i am very interested to read about the SRAM compatability - something naively I hadn't even considered before!)

Which version Di2 did you move from and why?
How do you rate the feedback of front and rear shifting compared to Di2 given it is so light?

tp2000

richiegwy wrote:

tp2000 wrote:

I'd go with Dura Ace 9000

I've been riding a bike with it on since the start of the year and the shifting and braking performance is exceptional. I had been riding DI2 before that and it is seriously making me think about not going back. The front shifting is the closest i've come to DI2 and thats using it with a rotor chainset and rings as opposed to a Shimano one. Yes...it is that good.

One difference is that I'd just go with the ultegra cassette - for £50 its a steal and I can't see the point of the additional spend on DA. (that said, i am very interested to read about the SRAM compatability - something naively I hadn't even considered before!)

Which version Di2 did you move from and why?
How do you rate the feedback of front and rear shifting compared to Di2 given it is so light?

I was on 6770 DI2 – although had also ridden 9070 – there was little difference between the two Di2’s in my eyes.

As for why I moved – it was enforced after a rather nasty crash which wrote off a bunch of parts and enforced a change in bike whilst my steel di2 frame is off having a new top tube inserted.

In terms of feedback/feel, they’re much of a muchness, but in different ways. I should add this is entirely subjective, so someone, somewhere is bound to disagree.

You will always get more feedback and feel on mechanical, but DA9000 really is so light at the back that there are times, especially on a 12-25 when I shift quickly I’m not sure I have shifted up the block (and in the middle of the block where its just 1 tooth difference). The front shifting is extraordinary – shorter throw, lighter and it just shifts. It actually mimicks DI2 in some ways, in the sense that on the way down to the smaller chainring it shifts in 2 stages to stop the chain being dumped off on the inside. Going up to the big ring it really is shift and forget – push the level, and it just bites, almost instantaneously (and that is on Q rings). There are times when I really do just think “wow”.

DI2 is different in its lack of feedback – that is simply that instead of pressing something that is directly moving the mechs, you press a button and that’s it. So instantly less engagement but actually I’ve always thought that the shifting on DI2 is a little more clunky. It never ever misses a beat, but the downshifts always tended to make sure you knew about it. Despite however good the front shifting is on DA9000 though, Di2 will always win…..that really is a game changer.

I know there are considerations like spares, the type of riding and weight. But on shifting performance alone, whereas when DI2 first came out there was night and day between it and DA7900, nowadays its not quite the no-brainer that it once was.

blablablacksheep

i have DA 7900 and its excellent, the positives are:
Amazing shifting, in particular the crispness of the shifts, and with doubletap being able to go up and down fast is very usefull.
Its hard to explain but it just does what you want it to do.

Cons, the brakes are shi.....ive found the front brake to be ok but rear brake just useless with it comes to precise braking, it very much on or off, not sure if it has changed sinse though.

Another issue id say is that you need to be sure that the cables are DA, some arent, and thus they are pointless esp given DA9000 cables are the bees knees:)

richiegwy

tp2000 wrote:

richiegwy wrote:

tp2000 wrote:

I'd go with Dura Ace 9000

I've been riding a bike with it on since the start of the year and the shifting and braking performance is exceptional. I had been riding DI2 before that and it is seriously making me think about not going back. The front shifting is the closest i've come to DI2 and thats using it with a rotor chainset and rings as opposed to a Shimano one. Yes...it is that good.

One difference is that I'd just go with the ultegra cassette - for £50 its a steal and I can't see the point of the additional spend on DA. (that said, i am very interested to read about the SRAM compatability - something naively I hadn't even considered before!)

Which version Di2 did you move from and why?
How do you rate the feedback of front and rear shifting compared to Di2 given it is so light?

tp2000 if you had a free choice now having risen both would you go with ultra 6870 di2 or DA9000 mechanical?
I was on 6770 DI2 – although had also ridden 9070 – there was little difference between the two Di2’s in my eyes.

As for why I moved – it was enforced after a rather nasty crash which wrote off a bunch of parts and enforced a change in bike whilst my steel di2 frame is off having a new top tube inserted.

In terms of feedback/feel, they’re much of a muchness, but in different ways. I should add this is entirely subjective, so someone, somewhere is bound to disagree.

You will always get more feedback and feel on mechanical, but DA9000 really is so light at the back that there are times, especially on a 12-25 when I shift quickly I’m not sure I have shifted up the block (and in the middle of the block where its just 1 tooth difference). The front shifting is extraordinary – shorter throw, lighter and it just shifts. It actually mimicks DI2 in some ways, in the sense that on the way down to the smaller chainring it shifts in 2 stages to stop the chain being dumped off on the inside. Going up to the big ring it really is shift and forget – push the level, and it just bites, almost instantaneously (and that is on Q rings). There are times when I really do just think “wow”.

DI2 is different in its lack of feedback – that is simply that instead of pressing something that is directly moving the mechs, you press a button and that’s it. So instantly less engagement but actually I’ve always thought that the shifting on DI2 is a little more clunky. It never ever misses a beat, but the downshifts always tended to make sure you knew about it. Despite however good the front shifting is on DA9000 though, Di2 will always win…..that really is a game changer.

I know there are considerations like spares, the type of riding and weight. But on shifting performance alone, whereas when DI2 first came out there was night and day between it and DA7900, nowadays its not quite the no-brainer that it once was.

I ride SRAM red "black" and rear shifting is lovely..click, click, click, very snappy. Front shifting is shockingly bad though. i took a ride on a guys scott foil with DA9000 and was blown away with how smooth it was. I never thought mechanical could be that light. I expect new red would be very close but probably not as smooth but I'm only guessing.

tp2000

richiegwy wrote:

tp2000 wrote:

richiegwy wrote:

tp2000 wrote:

I'd go with Dura Ace 9000

I've been riding a bike with it on since the start of the year and the shifting and braking performance is exceptional. I had been riding DI2 before that and it is seriously making me think about not going back. The front shifting is the closest i've come to DI2 and thats using it with a rotor chainset and rings as opposed to a Shimano one. Yes...it is that good.

One difference is that I'd just go with the ultegra cassette - for £50 its a steal and I can't see the point of the additional spend on DA. (that said, i am very interested to read about the SRAM compatability - something naively I hadn't even considered before!)

Which version Di2 did you move from and why?
How do you rate the feedback of front and rear shifting compared to Di2 given it is so light?

tp2000 if you had a free choice now having risen both would you go with ultra 6870 di2 or DA9000 mechanical?
I was on 6770 DI2 – although had also ridden 9070 – there was little difference between the two Di2’s in my eyes.

As for why I moved – it was enforced after a rather nasty crash which wrote off a bunch of parts and enforced a change in bike whilst my steel di2 frame is off having a new top tube inserted.

In terms of feedback/feel, they’re much of a muchness, but in different ways. I should add this is entirely subjective, so someone, somewhere is bound to disagree.

You will always get more feedback and feel on mechanical, but DA9000 really is so light at the back that there are times, especially on a 12-25 when I shift quickly I’m not sure I have shifted up the block (and in the middle of the block where its just 1 tooth difference). The front shifting is extraordinary – shorter throw, lighter and it just shifts. It actually mimicks DI2 in some ways, in the sense that on the way down to the smaller chainring it shifts in 2 stages to stop the chain being dumped off on the inside. Going up to the big ring it really is shift and forget – push the level, and it just bites, almost instantaneously (and that is on Q rings). There are times when I really do just think “wow”.

DI2 is different in its lack of feedback – that is simply that instead of pressing something that is directly moving the mechs, you press a button and that’s it. So instantly less engagement but actually I’ve always thought that the shifting on DI2 is a little more clunky. It never ever misses a beat, but the downshifts always tended to make sure you knew about it. Despite however good the front shifting is on DA9000 though, Di2 will always win…..that really is a game changer.

I know there are considerations like spares, the type of riding and weight. But on shifting performance alone, whereas when DI2 first came out there was night and day between it and DA7900, nowadays its not quite the no-brainer that it once was.

I ride SRAM red "black" and rear shifting is lovely..click, click, click, very snappy. Front shifting is shockingly bad though. i took a ride on a guys scott foil with DA9000 and was blown away with how smooth it was. I never thought mechanical could be that light. I expect new red would be very close but probably not as smooth but I'm only guessing.

Right now I'm leaning strongly towards da9000.....apart from non-stretching metal cables, I'm not as sure what the extra £500 (6870) or £1000 (9070) gets me for di2 these days.

Grill

blablablacksheep wrote:

i have DA 7900 and its excellent, the positives are:
Amazing shifting, in particular the crispness of the shifts, and with doubletap being able to go up and down fast is very usefull.
Its hard to explain but it just does what you want it to do.

Cons, the brakes are shi.....ive found the front brake to be ok but rear brake just useless with it comes to precise braking, it very much on or off, not sure if it has changed sinse though.

Another issue id say is that you need to be sure that the cables are DA, some arent, and thus they are pointless esp given DA9000 cables are the bees knees:)

I don't know what you're smoking, but 7900 brakes are the benchmark for both power and modulation...

DavidJB

Neither, Campag Record/SR. The best group set I've ever used, and I've used them all.

StillGoing

richiegwy wrote:

tp2000 wrote:

richiegwy wrote:

tp2000 wrote:

I'd go with Dura Ace 9000

I've been riding a bike with it on since the start of the year and the shifting and braking performance is exceptional. I had been riding DI2 before that and it is seriously making me think about not going back. The front shifting is the closest i've come to DI2 and thats using it with a rotor chainset and rings as opposed to a Shimano one. Yes...it is that good.

One difference is that I'd just go with the ultegra cassette - for £50 its a steal and I can't see the point of the additional spend on DA. (that said, i am very interested to read about the SRAM compatability - something naively I hadn't even considered before!)

Which version Di2 did you move from and why?
How do you rate the feedback of front and rear shifting compared to Di2 given it is so light?

tp2000 if you had a free choice now having risen both would you go with ultra 6870 di2 or DA9000 mechanical?
I was on 6770 DI2 – although had also ridden 9070 – there was little difference between the two Di2’s in my eyes.

As for why I moved – it was enforced after a rather nasty crash which wrote off a bunch of parts and enforced a change in bike whilst my steel di2 frame is off having a new top tube inserted.

In terms of feedback/feel, they’re much of a muchness, but in different ways. I should add this is entirely subjective, so someone, somewhere is bound to disagree.

You will always get more feedback and feel on mechanical, but DA9000 really is so light at the back that there are times, especially on a 12-25 when I shift quickly I’m not sure I have shifted up the block (and in the middle of the block where its just 1 tooth difference). The front shifting is extraordinary – shorter throw, lighter and it just shifts. It actually mimicks DI2 in some ways, in the sense that on the way down to the smaller chainring it shifts in 2 stages to stop the chain being dumped off on the inside. Going up to the big ring it really is shift and forget – push the level, and it just bites, almost instantaneously (and that is on Q rings). There are times when I really do just think “wow”.

DI2 is different in its lack of feedback – that is simply that instead of pressing something that is directly moving the mechs, you press a button and that’s it. So instantly less engagement but actually I’ve always thought that the shifting on DI2 is a little more clunky. It never ever misses a beat, but the downshifts always tended to make sure you knew about it. Despite however good the front shifting is on DA9000 though, Di2 will always win…..that really is a game changer.

I know there are considerations like spares, the type of riding and weight. But on shifting performance alone, whereas when DI2 first came out there was night and day between it and DA7900, nowadays its not quite the no-brainer that it once was.

I ride SRAM red "black" and rear shifting is lovely..click, click, click, very snappy. Front shifting is shockingly bad though. i took a ride on a guys scott foil with DA9000 and was blown away with how smooth it was. I never thought mechanical could be that light. I expect new red would be very close but probably not as smooth but I'm only guessing.

I ride a SRAM 10 speed combination of Red shifters, Force Wifli rear derailleur, Force Yaw 22 front derailleur and SRAM Red cranks with Q rings. The shifting is smooth and faultless.

bernithebiker

tp2000 wrote:

richiegwy wrote:

tp2000 wrote:

I'd go with Dura Ace 9000

I've been riding a bike with it on since the start of the year and the shifting and braking performance is exceptional. I had been riding DI2 before that and it is seriously making me think about not going back. The front shifting is the closest i've come to DI2 and thats using it with a rotor chainset and rings as opposed to a Shimano one. Yes...it is that good.

One difference is that I'd just go with the ultegra cassette - for £50 its a steal and I can't see the point of the additional spend on DA. (that said, i am very interested to read about the SRAM compatability - something naively I hadn't even considered before!)

Which version Di2 did you move from and why?
How do you rate the feedback of front and rear shifting compared to Di2 given it is so light?

I was on 6770 DI2 – although had also ridden 9070 – there was little difference between the two Di2’s in my eyes.

As for why I moved – it was enforced after a rather nasty crash which wrote off a bunch of parts and enforced a change in bike whilst my steel di2 frame is off having a new top tube inserted.

In terms of feedback/feel, they’re much of a muchness, but in different ways. I should add this is entirely subjective, so someone, somewhere is bound to disagree.

You will always get more feedback and feel on mechanical, but DA9000 really is so light at the back that there are times, especially on a 12-25 when I shift quickly I’m not sure I have shifted up the block (and in the middle of the block where its just 1 tooth difference). The front shifting is extraordinary – shorter throw, lighter and it just shifts. It actually mimicks DI2 in some ways, in the sense that on the way down to the smaller chainring it shifts in 2 stages to stop the chain being dumped off on the inside. Going up to the big ring it really is shift and forget – push the level, and it just bites, almost instantaneously (and that is on Q rings). There are times when I really do just think “wow”.

DI2 is different in its lack of feedback – that is simply that instead of pressing something that is directly moving the mechs, you press a button and that’s it. So instantly less engagement but actually I’ve always thought that the shifting on DI2 is a little more clunky. It never ever misses a beat, but the downshifts always tended to make sure you knew about it. Despite however good the front shifting is on DA9000 though, Di2 will always win…..that really is a game changer.

I know there are considerations like spares, the type of riding and weight. But on shifting performance alone, whereas when DI2 first came out there was night and day between it and DA7900, nowadays its not quite the no-brainer that it once was.

Totally agree with this. Had DA 9000 on my SL4 now for 6 months, and the shifting is fantastic, way better than 7900, especially at the front. I too use Q rings, so even more impressive for that. (On an Sworks chainset).

I prefer the simplicity of 9000 to Di2, and I can spend the cash I saved on other goodies!