6 chains and cassettes since last April, normal?

gingaman

Took bike to LBS for a service. The current cassette and chain are at most 5 weeks old. They have now been replaced. I have no problem with this as they were slipping, but this is the 6th cassette and chain since I purchased the bike in April last year. At an average of around 5/600 miles per week is this normal? I keep bike relatively clean and lubricated but she lives outdoors in all weathers.

May I please have any advice you can give as to how I can prolong the life of these components, I am working on my pedalling technique but I don't know what else I can do.

Cheers

Gingaman

tgotb

Par for the course I'm afraid; chains last me around 2000 miles at this time of year. Cassettes should be lasting a bit longer though, I normally get 3 chains' worth of life out of a cassette...

Given the mileage you're doing, well worth getting the tools to change these components yourself. Prices are from CRC, but other competitively-priced retailers exist:
Chain tool: Should really have one on your multitool, otherwise £10. You don't need one to fasten/unfasten the quick link on most 10 speed chains, but you'll need it for shortening chains, which are supplied overlength.
Cassette tool: £10
Chain Whip: £6
Chain wear indicator: £5
Replacement chain: £15
Replacement cassette: £24 (Shimano 105)

Replacing your chain is a 10 minute job, replacing the cassette is even quicker.

Replace your chain when the wear indicator shows more than 0.75%
Replace your cassette when you switch to a new chain and it slips (maybe every 3 chains)
At some point you'll wear out your chainrings (maybe every 3 cassettes, you'll know because a new chain slips on them). £15-25 per chainring, £5-£10 for the tools to replace (depending on the type of bolt)

mrdsgs

5/600 miles per week?!!! That must be some commute!

gingaman

whoops, well spotted! Yes of course I meant per month :oops:

craker

Thought about going single speed? Straight chainline, thicker chain, one gear at each end so you can just run the whole drivetrain into the ground each time.

... then you could also get a chain case. Enclose your chain, it'll last forever! Well, maybe a bit longer.

gingaman

craker wrote:

Thought about going single speed? Straight chainline, thicker chain, one gear at each end so you can just run the whole drivetrain into the ground each time.

... then you could also get a chain case. Enclose your chain, it'll last forever! Well, maybe a bit longer.

I have thought about it, but I have my heart set on a Genesis roadie in a month or so

fat_tail

from my experience you should get around 3200 km or 2000 miles per chain and as someone else said 3 chains per cassette. I am currently on my 3rd chain and 1st cassette on a new bike i bought last year with around 9000 km of riding mainly stop start London commuting. I keep the bike indoors. I put the chain in white spirit every 4 or 5 weeks. give it a good clean. then back on the bike with plenty of lube. I use KMC missing link to make life easy.

gozzy

TGOTB wrote:

Chain wear indicator: £5

Or, the cheap way; a 12" ruler and a read of Sheldon Brown's article on chain wear.

daddy0

I changed my cassette to an Ultegra one in July - done about 1000km/month since then and changed the chain (Ultegra) once. Current chain has been on through winter and is still good. I do clean my bike after every wet ride, not always straight away, but before I ride it again. I did buy a chain cleaner, but the cleaning fluid can cost you more than replacing the chain, so I just use WD40 or GT85 and a rag to clean the chain every now and again.

I would advise you get the tools to do this maintenance yourself - its not hard, you can't really screw it up - just make sure the chain is the right way up.

If you want your gear to last don't leave it outdoors.

Barteos

gingaman wrote:

...The current cassette and chain are at most 5 weeks old. They have now been replaced. I have no problem with this as they were slipping, but this is the 6th cassette and chain since I purchased the bike in April last year. At an average of around 5/600 miles per week is this normal? I keep bike relatively clean and lubricated but she lives outdoors in all weathers...
Gingaman

That kind of wear is certainly not normal unless you tend to grind the same gear all the time.

The most cost effective system is to rotate 2-3 chains on the same cassette every 200-400 miles depending on conditions. With a KMC "missing link" it takes seconds. Comparing to the popular 0.75% method it puts less wear on the cassette and eliminates the need of measuring the chain wear and the issue of replacing chains too early or too late.

Using all the chainrings instead of just one also spreads the wear over a larger number of cassette cogs.

As for cleaning, it's matter of how much your time is worth.
Chains (e.g. KMC X...-73) are cheap so even if you extend their life by 50% you'll be saving peanuts in relation to all the time "invested" during its lifespan.

The Rookie

Regular lube works wonders as well.......

Without knowing the 'failure mode' it's very hard to be sure why you are killing them so fast, but the 3 chain method is a good money saver, for you a swap every 2 weeks would seem to fit the bill.

meanredspider

There's definitely some abuse going on here somewhere - and probably in several ways. I'm a year-round rider, weigh over 90kg, ride in all weathers and have been commuting in the Highlands (so plenty of load through the transmission - there's no "flat"). My chains will last me 2500 miles at least and cassettes twice that (I'll tend to change them earlier rather than when they aren't working). I'm also someone that realised that chain cleaning fluid is expensive compared to the price of chains and cassettes (if bought carefully) so it's only worth cleaning when really needed.

Things to check:
1. What cadence do you ride at? Are you really "mashing"?
2. Do you cross the chain up a lot (big front ring to big rear gear) and abuse the transmission?
3. Do you use a heavy weight lube to keep the water out when stored outside?
4. Are you buying good quality chains and cassettes (they last much longer)?
5. Is there any fine sand/grit on your ride?

godders1

Chain cleaning stuff is pricey but non bike branded citrus based degreaser (same stuff in different packaging as far as I can tell) can be had for a few quid a litre.

coopster_the_1st

Sounds like the LBS are doing the standard change the cassette when changing the chain.

I got 5k miles out of my winter bikes chain, cassette & small ring before having to change them(big ring is still the original). I never once measured the chain for wear, but based it on the teeth of the cassette.

Personally as long as you are on the cheaper end of components (Sora, Tiagra) you may as well run then I to the ground and replace. The above replacement of components cost under £40.

gingaman

Barteos wrote:

That kind of wear is certainly not normal unless you tend to grind the same gear all the time.

meanredspider wrote:

There's definitely some abuse going on here somewhere - and probably in several ways. I'm a year-round rider, weigh over 90kg, ride in all weathers

Things to check:
1. What cadence do you ride at? Are you really "mashing"?
2. Do you cross the chain up a lot (big front ring to big rear gear) and abuse the transmission?
3. Do you use a heavy weight lube to keep the water out when stored outside?
4. Are you buying good quality chains and cassettes (they last much longer)?
5. Is there any fine sand/grit on your ride?

Barteos, I'm not always in the same gear, but do tend to try and push on as much as I can, so could probably change through the range of gears more. I change up or down depending how easy or hard pedalling gets, and dont use a cadence sensor. The same as you, I am an all year rider, over 90kg, all weathers.

MRS, I don't think I'm 'mashing' the gears (but could be, I try and keep an arbitrary average speed when I'm riding, if I'm feeling knackered then I'm pushing too much and back off), and I'm trying to work on my pedalling technique.
I don't think I cross the chain, the most I will go is big ring at the front and about mid cassette, don't have the need of the granny on the commute.
Lube is whatever wet lube Halfords sell, I'll only oil it when it's clean. Chain and cassette are decent.

Without taking the chain off, how effective is cleaning it with degreaser etc? I think I can always feel a bit of grit after I have cleaned it and rinsing it with a hose doesn't alleviate the issue, maybe compressed air on the chain?

I agree I do need to get my own tools (got a lot of work tools, only minimal bike tools!) and learn to maintain bike myself. I'm very good at dismantling things, getting better at returning them to their original state

edit: but then thinking about it, I will go from big ring, small rear to middle ring, small rear before changing down at the rear. Is this sensible?

Mikey23

about the same mileage as me and im still on my first cassette and 3rd chain. 105 spec purchased jan last year. so yes, something seems amiss but all the above is good advice. perhaps your LBS is being a tad over zealous?

my bike sits in the spare room when not being ridden!

meanredspider

gingaman wrote:

edit: but then thinking about it, I will go from big ring, small rear to middle ring, small rear before changing down at the rear. Is this sensible?

So you want to have stepped down to say 3rd smallest at the rear before you swap to the middle ring at the front. In fact, normally it would be sensible to swap around the middle of the cassette because, changing to the middle ring, you may want to to move one or two smaller at the rear too. It's not the end of the world but the less out of line the chain is, the more the links wear and the more pressure it's putting onto the teeth front and rear. Obviously, the more you are mashing the higher the pressure is and the more wear there will be.

Ouija

Does seem a bit odd. I average around 1000 miles a month, usually on my main two bikes and can't even remember the last time i changed chain or cassette (sometime early last year) and non of them are showing .75 wear yet. Ok. I'd expect to up that a little if i did all my riding on just the one bike but i'd still be only looking at a chain change every six to eight months and a cassette change every year and a half to two years.

If your trying to push big gears, not doing minimal cleaning of the chain and it feels gritty then your going to have problems. I avoid cleaning with water, don't oil any other surface other than the parts that make contact with the cassettes teeth and occasionally give a quick blast with GT85 etc after a ride in the rain to displace the water and then give it a wipe down. You really don't need to maintain a chain that much to elongate it's life span.

itboffin

no that's not normal if you're taking this bike to the same LBS everytime, find a new one as stated they're replacing those parts as 'standard'.

I live in Wiltshire the condition here are generally nothing short of grim and i still manage to get are 6-8000 miles a year and I havent changed a chain or cassette in more than 12 months, i keep my chain clean and well lubed after every ride, i rarely ever clean my cassette.

Klarion

gingaman wrote:

I have no problem with this as they were slipping, but this is the 6th cassette and chain since I purchased the bike in April last year. At an average of around 5/600 miles per [month] is this normal?

It looks like you are being scammed by unscrupulous people who see your inexperience or lack of knowledge as their opportunity to make unnecessary (but profitable) sales. There is no way that the kind of mileage you are doing could degrade all those chains and cassettes.

Of course, there are plenty of sharks (big and small) in every industry who prey on the public, but it is depressing to be reminded that one has to be wary of them also in the retail bike sector.

In the long run, learning more about the mechanics of your bike not only helps protect you from such scammers but also it can be very enjoyable to become able to do your own servicing, repairs and modifications.

BTW I wonder if the slippage you were experiencing was perhaps caused by a misajustment of your drivetrain, and could have been sorted with a few tweaks and possibly fitting a chain catcher.

bucklb

gingaman wrote:

May I please have any advice you can give as to how I can prolong the life of these components, I am working on my pedalling technique but I don't know what else I can do.

Cheers

Gingaman

You've taken a significant step by asking for information, rather than just accepting what the LBS is telling you is needed. The next big step would be to get yourself a chain checker tool so you can get an accurate assessment of chain wear. Knowledge is power - you put yourself in a position where you can tell the LBS that you know the chain is unworn & they are not to replace it or the cassette.

In my case chains & cassettes cost me £10 each or thereabouts (8 speed), so I don't really look after either beyond making sure they're not filthy and are kept lubed. I get 1,500ish out of each chain & expect a cassette to last 3 chains. I'm not gentle on chains. :oops:

mudcovered

As others have said. On a milage of 400-500 a month there is no way you should have gone through 6 chains and cassettes. I do much the same sort of milage (maybe a little less) through very poor conditions and I'm been using the same chain/cassette combo for the last 18months at least (probably longer) although I do store my bike indoors. Keeping the bike outdoors (even undercover) will reduce the life of things but if you keep the chain clean and lubricated you should still be able to run the same chain and cassette longer than a couple of months.
I don't even attempt to replace the chain before the cassette is worn and just replace both when shifting becomes compromised.
As others have said buy the tools to replace your own chain and cassette. Its a pretty simple job and there are lots of online guides on how to do it. The only slightly tricky part is sizing the chain and if you aren't sure about that just make sure that you have the same number of links in the new chain as the old one.

Other things that can cause the shifting to sound rough are heavily worn jockey wheels on the derailleur. I typically have to replace these once every 12months or so (but that costs about £10 depending on the type of derailleur). Again a simple job needing nothing more than an allen key the right size and some attention paid to which replacement cog goes where.

Mike

rolf_f

bucklb wrote:

The next big step would be to get yourself a chain checker tool so you can get an accurate assessment of chain wear.

Those aren't actually accurate measures of chain wear. You are better off with a ruler for that.

veronese68

Rolf F wrote:

bucklb wrote:

The next big step would be to get yourself a chain checker tool so you can get an accurate assessment of chain wear.

Those aren't actually accurate measures of chain wear. You are better off with a ruler for that.

I was about to ask what chain checking tool was worthwhile. I see some are below a fiver, presumably they only tell you if the chain is worn beyond whatever limit the manufacturer deems necessary. Is the only advantage that they are quicker than using a ruler?

bucklb

Veronese68 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

bucklb wrote:

The next big step would be to get yourself a chain checker tool so you can get an accurate assessment of chain wear.

Those aren't actually accurate measures of chain wear. You are better off with a ruler for that.

I was about to ask what chain checking tool was worthwhile. I see some are below a fiver, presumably they only tell you if the chain is worn beyond whatever limit the manufacturer deems necessary. Is the only advantage that they are quicker than using a ruler?

Quicker & easier (and I assume cleaner). When I'm aware the chain's been on for 1,000 miles or so I add using the chain checker to my weekend routine - check tyres for glass/damage, wipe & lube chain, etc etc. When the chain hits the initial wear marked (.75?) I make a mental note to be sure to replace the chain soonish