UK flooding

Frank the tank

It's time the government suspended all foreign aid for three to five years and spent all the cash on sorting out infrastructure and compensating the businesses and communities devastated by this winter weather.

Charity begins at home, so the saying goes.

random man

They shouldn't need to suspend foreign aid Frank, they should have a budget for such occurrences.

Lookyhere

I don't think that will make much difference, Osbourne isn't even 1/2 way through his current round of spending cuts, Cornwall council are seriously looking at abandoning some rural lanes as they just havnt the money to repair.
there is a budget, its called MPs expenses, up 26% to £89 million, gov promises 130m to rebuild.
the environment agency should be renamed the Kanute agency, their futile waste of time and money in somerset is pathetic as is Cameron sending in 40 marines to do a bit of sanding bagging LOL.
horse and stable door sums up the response.

DeVlaeminck

Foreign aid should be about national interest - where it is fair enough - otherwise leave it to charity. Nothing stopping anyone giving whatever percent of their income to whatever causes they think are worthwhile.

markhewitt1978

I think it's showing up starkly the UKs problems with infrastructure programmes. Instead of dredging the rivers, building sea defences etc we prefer to put it off, do environment impact studies etc etc, anything but actually build something.

pblakeney

markhewitt1978 wrote:

I think it's showing up starkly the UKs problems with infrastructure programmes. Instead of dredging the rivers, building sea defences etc we prefer to put it off, do environment impact studies etc etc, anything but actually build something.

Are you suggesting that the UK may be lagging?

mamba80

PBlakeney wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

I think it's showing up starkly the UKs problems with infrastructure programmes. Instead of dredging the rivers, building sea defences etc we prefer to put it off, do environment impact studies etc etc, anything but actually build something.

Are you suggesting that the UK may be lagging?

"needs" lagging

capt_slog

I've visited Happisburgh (see here https://www.bgs.ac.uk/landslides/happisburgh.html) a couple of times during the last few years and I've wondered each time how it can be that we will aid foreign 'disaster' but won't look after our own.

There's been a lot of places in trouble along the east coast for years where the problems stem from lack of action further along the coast because some council is making cuts. The response seems to be "serves you right for buying a house there".

bianchimoon

markhewitt1978 wrote:

I think it's showing up starkly the UKs problems with infrastructure programmes. Instead of dredging the rivers, building sea defences etc we prefer to put it off, do environment impact studies etc etc, anything but actually build something.

agreed, amazes me that the victorians did so much, sewers, railways, tunnels, bridges, sea defences and if we do a major uk infrastructure project we have to get foreign investment, foreign skills, foreign workers. Ideally i'd scrap the HS2 project and put the rail and roads right first, even if it means toll motorways, at least the A and b roads would be rideable/driveable (PS not aganst foreign investment and workers, just think we should use british based companies for building rolling stock etc or at least make companies like siemens build them on british soul)

MartinGT

Its sad seeing the footage on the news, really is.

It seems we in this country like to use a plaster to repair a broken leg. Then its waaaaayyy too late. A stitch in time so to speak.

I heard it was going to cost £4m to dredge the rivers. They stopped dredging the rivers down there some 20+ years ago. So if they had dredge them over 20 years the cost is little, but because once again, they cut corners to save some cash, it costs more in the long run.

bernithebiker

Agree that H2S is pointless whilst other lines and infrastructure are not working/protected properly*.

We've had massive amounts of rain here in Brittany over the last few weeks, and Quimper is at the confluence of two rivers so is a potential flooding nightmare. However, much work has been done over the last 10 years and only last night did the rivers slightly overflow. (Without the work, hundreds if not thousands would have been evacuated).




*It's pointless anyway!

mamba80

I am not sure we should be spending too much money protecting a flood plain with just few houses and farms etc whilst we ve not got the money to protect a main line railway - edit - as mentioned above, just seen another luxury house being protected in the somerset levels..fanfuggintastic!
But what we all need to realise is that the uk has for decades been under investing in its infrastructure and instead spends 100s of billions on foreign wars, aircraft carriers (but no planes yet) and a new generation of nuclear deterrent, not to mention repeated tax cuts and bailing out the financial sector... and we all vote for it, election after election, because ultimately, we are more interested in a 1p cut in income tax than funded public services.
the Governments extra £130m is no response at all to this.

Frank the tank

random man wrote:

They shouldn't need to suspend foreign aid Frank, they should have a budget for such occurrences.

Those budgets have been reduced while spending on foreign aid has actually been increased mate. I saw on tv the other day the budget for road repairs had been reduced from £3.1billion down to around £1.45billion whilst we happily fund non-existent schools in Pakistan (for example) it cannot be right or fair.

Looking at the plight of those farmers in Somerset, I know where I'd prefer my tax pound to be spent. :evil:

I'm not just on about the Somerset levels, but, nationwide, the government need to have a more longsighted view on such things.

markhewitt1978

It's not like they didn't see it coming http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4382200.stm

mamba80

markhewitt1978 wrote:

It's not like they didn't see it coming http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4382200.stm

yes they did but what exactly can they do about it?
to compulsory purchase and then build a new line would take 10 or 20years and 100s of millions of pounds, the money wasted on non existent schools would make very little difference to this budget.
the private sector are not interested in these sort of projects, there is not enough money in it for them, this and the other things people seem to want but are not willing to pay for, have to come out of taxation and we don't collect enough of the stuff.

pblakeney

mamba80 wrote:

yes they did but what exactly can they do about it?
to compulsory purchase and then build a new line would take 10 or 20years and 100s of millions of pounds...

A good answer to your own question.
The other options are:-
Continually repair the line which will cost the same in the long run.
Abandon the line.

There is no easy answer to this County's infrastructure woes. Far less any cheap solutions.

Peddle Up!

£375 billion of quantitative easing "injected into the economy" by effectively giving it to the banks. Imagine how much infrastructure we could repair or build for that. :evil:

mamba80

PBlakeney wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

yes they did but what exactly can they do about it?
to compulsory purchase and then build a new line would take 10 or 20years and 100s of millions of pounds...

A good answer to your own question.
The other options are:-
Continually repair the line which will cost the same in the long run.
Abandon the line.

There is no easy answer to this County's infrastructure woes. Far less any cheap solutions.

Glad you liked it

I disagree re no easy options, they are very easy, we have to decide what to spend money on, this country still is very wealthy, its just that these disasters don't effect our esteemed leaders, so the rest of us can xxxx off.
One thing that wont happen is the private sector funding any of it.

Pross

Thing is, what level of likelihood do you design your infrastructure for? We are currently on course for the wettest winter since records began and will probably hit that with 2 weeks to spare having already had the wettest December and wettest January recorded. So do we design for a 1:100 year probability (as surface water drainage systems currently are) or 1:200 year, 1:1000 year? Obviously the greater the factor of safety the greater the price.

I think everyone would like to see greater spending on infrastructure, I certainly would as it would give me more work! However, I don't see many people saying they would be happy for the income tax or council tax to increase to pay for it. The accounting is always done by 'tax people who earn more than me at a higher rate' or 'cut spending on areas that I don't like / have no interest in'.

One thing I can't work out is that we have a very similar system of coastal levels here on the other side of the Bristol Channel and have had much the same weather, tidal surges etc. but without the same issues. Maybe this is because the land rises steeply much closer to the estuary than on the other side and we don't have the flat, slow moving rivers over here. Considering the rain we have had we've actually got by pretty much unscathed.

DesB3rd

I don't see many people saying they would be happy for the income tax or council tax

Plenty of folk would be happy to see a rise in income tax, but always for those earning just a bit more than they can reasonably hope to in the foreseeable future.

RedWheels

Frank the tank wrote:

random man wrote:

They shouldn't need to suspend foreign aid Frank, they should have a budget for such occurrences.

Those budgets have been reduced while spending on foreign aid has actually been increased mate. I saw on tv the other day the budget for road repairs had been reduced from £3.1billion down to around £1.45billion whilst we happily fund non-existent schools in Pakistan (for example) it cannot be right or fair.

Looking at the plight of those farmers in Somerset, I know where I'd prefer my tax pound to be spent. :evil:

I'm not just on about the Somerset levels, but, nationwide, the government need to have a more longsighted view on such things.

We spend more money dropping bombs on pakistan (in the name of defence - which doesn't include sea defence or flooding) then we spend on building schools there, and anyway, the idea we need to cut something to pay for something else is false. The government would have plenty of money if it stopped tax evasion from Amazon,google,vodafone etc. or as has been mentioned increase the higher rate tax threshold.

I agree that a a longer vision is needed,
Dredging rivers is environmentally damaging and short term. A policy of planting trees along banks to reduce silt build up, a restoration of marshland and increasing area for 'natural draining' for cities are just some of the solutions that should jointly be implemented.


Maybe the army, our national defence force, should also be responsible for defending us against flooding, global warming etc. They could deploy sandbags for us and the flood defences could come out of there budget as well, think how much of the country could be protected from the running cost of the Trident system alone if it were to be scrapped.

Frank the tank

I have no problem what-so-ever with getting wealthy individuals and corporations paying their proper share of tax. However I'm not running the show.

mr_goo

Ask the bloke on the left what he did with the £bns of our money pursuing illegal wars or giving it away to states that have space and nuclear programs. If it wasn't for him and his successor we wouldn't be in the state we are now. Oh how short our memories are.

finchy

We got a knock on our door last night at about 12.30am - police! They were doing the rounds warning all the locals that the nearby river was expected to burst its banks at about 3am, so I spent the next 4 hours shifting everything valuable upstairs. In the end nothing happened, but my little boy was kind enough to let me sleep until 7 this morning. :roll: :roll:

Pross

Frank the tank wrote:

I have no problem what-so-ever with getting wealthy individuals and corporations paying their proper share of tax. However I'm not running the show.

Exactly. Getting others to pay more tax. As I said above everyone wants more but wants someone else to pay. The day I hear someone say 'I'm happy to pay an extra 5p in the £ to pay for a better health service / schools / flood defences' maybe there'll be a chance of things changing.

bendertherobot

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/exper ... -flooding/

kajjal

Unfortunately this is a very rare freak occurrence that can't easily be planned for. There is a lot of low lying flat ground which means it is difficult for the flood water to run off. In other more hilly parts of the country while there is minor flooding it soon runs off. There are no easy solutions.

orraloon

bendertherobot wrote:

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-somerset-flooding/

Good link. Refreshing to read some rational thinking on the problem rather than political posturing.

bendertherobot

orraloon wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-somerset-flooding/

Good link. Refreshing to read some rational thinking on the problem rather than political posturing.

I'd actually have more respect for Cameron et al if they said that we can't fix this. Or, if we did, it would cost an enormous amount.

I appreciate that we could can HS2, aid etc. That does rather oversimplify the issue though.

Stevo_666

Frank the tank wrote:

It's time the government suspended all foreign aid for three to five years and spent all the cash on sorting out infrastructure and compensating the businesses and communities devastated by this winter weather.

Charity begins at home, so the saying goes.

:shock: I agree with you Frank...bizarrely the phrase 'charity starts at home' was exactly what I thought this morning when I read the headlines in the papers

Peddle Up!

orraloon wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-somerset-flooding/

Good link. Refreshing to read some rational thinking on the problem rather than political posturing.

+1