Zipp 202 - 2013 or 2014????
james0133
Posts: 19
I'm buying a set of Zipp 202 clinchers. I can get 2013's at a good price but I'm worried about the hub reliability. I'm also reading that the 2014's are 25% stiffer and I'm keen to get as stiff a wheel as possible. Is this just Zipp marketing because the rim has not changed?
Should I get 2014 or save some money on 2013's?
I am upgrading from Fulcrum Zero's, which I have found great.
Should I get 2014 or save some money on 2013's?
I am upgrading from Fulcrum Zero's, which I have found great.
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Comments
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If the 2013 use the 88/188 hubs then you should get the 2014, 'cause those hubs are dangerous.
Measuring stiffness in % increments smells of a rat of courseleft the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:If the 2013 use the 88/188 hubs then you should get the 2014, 'cause those hubs are dangerous.
Measuring stiffness in % increments smells of a rat of course
Why are the 188 V8 hubs dangerous?0 -
james0133 wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:If the 2013 use the 88/188 hubs then you should get the 2014, 'cause those hubs are dangerous.
Measuring stiffness in % increments smells of a rat of course
Why are the V8 hubs dangerous?
Catastrophic failures.
viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=12930058&hilit=zipp+hubRed bikes are the fastest.0 -
Ooo! Now I'm glad I asked instead of finding out at 85 or 90k's!!0
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Yes, there is a wide literature of failures both for the front and rear hubs and all fail in the same way, by ripping off large chunks of the flange... which suggests something more than just web conspiracy.
Zipp has then changed the hubs and importantly even changed the lacing pattern of the rear wheel, sticking to the old school of lacing 3 cross on the drive side.
Basically they fought the law (of good engineering) but the law won...left the forum March 20230 -
I bought a pair of the 2014 202 clinchers a couple of weeks back. As Ugo points out, they have changed the rear hub quite a bit. Tyres are mounted, cassette is in place but sadly with the amount of water either falling or sat on the roads nearby, I have no basis to judge how stiff they are !
Ugo knows more about spoke lacing than I do, but it is my understanding that the spoke pattern is "virtual" 3 cross ie it really is 2 cross but would be 3 cross if you extended the spokes !0 -
Well I bought a set of Mavic SLR's. However I really don't like them and luckily my local bike shop is excellent and will swap them! The SLR's are extremely in aero and I was having difficulty staying with my mates in descents, which is not usually the case.
So now I'm not sure whether to stick with Zero's which I know I love or go with 2014 202's. one of my main worries with the 202's is that they would be less stiff then the 0's.
Mccaria can you tell me when moving the rim from side to side between the break callipers on you 2014 202's do they move easy between the pads? In other words how stiff are they?0 -
Zipp hubs have side-to-side play – it’s how they’re designed. This is negated when rider weight is applied and I’ve had no problems with flexing when out of the saddle honking up climbs (although I’m no ‘rugby player build’ ;-)). I used to ride Zeros which were very stiff, but I swapped these for RSYS-SLR’s which are IMO even stiffer. Some Zipp hub blurb…
Zipp hubs are different from most hubs in that they do not side load the bearings to remove play in the hub (think traditional cup and cone set-up). Our hub is designed such that the bearing race on the axle is aligned with the sealed bearing when the end caps on the axle are properly torqued. Since the axle is not press fit into place it will have some lateral movement when the wheel is unweighted. Once a rider's weight is added to the system, the bearing becomes loaded vertically and the play then disappears. By designing the hub this way, it is possible to extend bearing life and make a hub that will turn much smoother leading to a faster wheel.0 -
thegreatdivide wrote:Zipp hubs have side-to-side play – it’s how they’re designed. This is negated when rider weight is applied and I’ve had no problems with flexing when out of the saddle honking up climbs (although I’m no ‘rugby player build’ ;-)). I used to ride Zeros which were very stiff, but I swapped these for RSYS-SLR’s which are IMO even stiffer. Some Zipp hub blurb…
Zipp hubs are different from most hubs in that they do not side load the bearings to remove play in the hub (think traditional cup and cone set-up). Our hub is designed such that the bearing race on the axle is aligned with the sealed bearing when the end caps on the axle are properly torqued. Since the axle is not press fit into place it will have some lateral movement when the wheel is unweighted. Once a rider's weight is added to the system, the bearing becomes loaded vertically and the play then disappears. By designing the hub this way, it is possible to extend bearing life and make a hub that will turn much smoother leading to a faster wheel.
Thanks for the post, interesting! I went looked at some 202's this evening and I noticed the play in the bearings and was wondering, now I know.
Does anyone know how the 2014 202's measure up I terms of stiffness compared to Zeros? It looks like I'm trying a set of 2013 202's on Sunday.0 -
I ride 2013 303 FC tubs but their can't be that much different in stiffness between the two. Bertie rides 202's as standard and he''ll be putting out more watts than we can dream of, so if they're good enough for him... ;-)0
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Not directly related but switching from 303 firecrest rear clincher back to Zero's made for a much livlier ride which I assumed (perhaps wrongly) indicated significantly greater all round stiffness. I think 202's are meant to be stiffer than 303's but I'd be surprised if they close the gap I experience.
Peter0 -
thegreatdivide wrote:I ride 2013 303 FC tubs but their can't be that much different in stiffness between the two. Bertie rides 202's as standard and he''ll be putting out more watts than we can dream of, so if they're good enough for him... ;-)
Many riders have the rims built for them with different spokes... I am not saying Contador is one of them, but you can't be sure that what the stickers say is what you can actually buy in a shop.
Wheelbuilder.com have worked with many PRO rides and they build ZIpp and Reynolds among othersleft the forum March 20230 -
northpole wrote:Not directly related but switching from 303 firecrest rear clincher back to Zero's made for a much livlier ride which I assumed (perhaps wrongly) indicated significantly greater all round stiffness. I think 202's are meant to be stiffer than 303's but I'd be surprised if they close the gap I experience.
Peter
That is the kind of thing I'm afraid of! Maybe I should just stick to the 0's!
Will be interesting to try the ''13 202's on Sunday shame the not the '14's and not on my own bike but I'll do solid hills ride to sets them out.0 -
Do the Zipp freehub a run on ball bearings like Fulcrum or bushion like Mavic?0
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I'm hearing about a lot of reliability issues with Zipp and I'm thinking Enve 3.4's might be a good option but they are very expensive!!0
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They are indeed - at this price point you've got to ask yourself how much benefit a pair of wheels costing over £2k will bring to you over and above the performance provided by your existing £700+ Zero's. Particularly if you hit a thumping great pothole/ pull hard on the brake levers/ carbon brake surface when descending in the wet.... I'd suggest you really need to be comfortable with these sort of aspects, having recently gone through the same thought process and deciding in the negative! You may well decide differently.
Peter0 -
I'm more than happy descending in the wet on my 303 FC's and have ridden in some torrents off the back of Cols on mine. The new Tangente Platinum Pro Evo pads are excellent too.
As for potholes - Boonen + Roubaix + Flanders ;-)0 -
greatdivide, Slightly off topic but have you compared the Tangente against the yellow Swissstop pads? I'd be interested to hear your view/ experience between them.
Peter0 -
thegreatdivide wrote:As for potholes - Boonen + Roubaix + Flanders ;-)
The fact that you don't see an alloy rim on the roof of PRO teams even at Paris-Roubaix anymore suggests good quality carbon rims have surpassed alloy even in the robustness section. People who are still afraid of riding them because they might break misplace their fears.
That said, I wouldn't ride a Zipp rim in the Paris-Roubaix for amateurs... simply because if it does break or if it dents, which can happen to any rim, the economic damage is immense, compared to a 40-50 quid alloy rim.
However, if 700 pounds can get out of your pocket no problems, then why not?left the forum March 20230 -
northpole wrote:greatdivide, Slightly off topic but have you compared the Tangente against the yellow Swissstop pads? I'd be interested to hear your view/ experience between them.
Peter
I started out on Yellows, but after two rides realised that my brake track was going yellow! So swapped them out for Black Prince pads. I was quite happy with them and they worked really well on dry, to damp to soaking descents – but I’d forgotten I’d previously said to the LBS to try and get me the newest Zipp pads* for Campagnolo shoes. When they turned up in Sept I fitted them and got some good riding done before the winter. I personally think they’re great and they look to be much tougher than the Black Prince pads for wear too. Saying that, I still use BP’s on another bike with Reynolds carbon rims.
*I know that Swissstop make pads for pretty much everyone - but the Zipp compund looks to be really good.0 -
Thanks for that.
Peter0 -
Well I tried a set of 202's on an Avanti bike.
I'm 74kg and for me there WAY too flexible! I couldn't stop the breaks rubbing when standing climbing or sprinting.
Looks like ill go the Enve route or Reynalds or just stick with what I know works, Racing Zero's.0 -
Can the Zipps easily be rebuilt when the rims go?0
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Irohug5 wrote:Can the Zipps easily be rebuilt when the rims go?
It's not worth it... the rims are the only valuable part...the 188 hub is rubbish and will probably fail at some point... however, if you really want to, then you need to find a rim with the same ERD... the 303 are 550 mmleft the forum March 20230 -
What happened to your self-imposed ban/promise to stay away from factory wheel discussions ugo?0
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thegreatdivide wrote:What happened to your self-imposed ban/promise to stay away from factory wheel discussions ugo?
Zipp are hand built wheels...
http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... st-rebuildleft the forum March 20230 -
they surely are.
I think the last batch of 202 or 303's with the zipp own design radial rear spoke pattern were 2012 to 2013 models with stuff from around september last year going to the 188 v9 hub.
if you were to get them, make sure you know the difference!0 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:thegreatdivide wrote:What happened to your self-imposed ban/promise to stay away from factory wheel discussions ugo?
Zipp are hand built wheels...
http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... st-rebuild
No way are you getting off on a technicality!0 -
thegreatdivide wrote:No way are you getting off on a technicality!
'fraid so... factory wheels are only those using proprietary spokes and solutions... most Mavic, Shimano and some others...
left the forum March 20230
