Hardcore HT or FS?

kevinharley

Hi,

I’m in line for a bit of back-pay in the next 2-3 months, and thinking about a new (to me) bike!

I’ve currently got a Boardman Team Hardtail (2012/2013) model which has been a great do-it-all bike; it handles the trails around Leeds (95% of my riding) with aplomb, is at ease at the Trail Centres I’ve been to (CYB, Dalby, Grisedale, Dalbeattie, Mabie), and has managed (although is a little under-biked for) an all mountain ride in the Lakes as well as a DH day at Antur Stiniog!

Initially, Id’ been thinking I’d put the money (I would guess £600-£800) to getting a used medium travel (130/140) FS bike.

Now … whilst I am sure that this would be a nice thing to have, I’m also wondering whether I’d really need one. I only get away for a MTB weekend a couple of times a year, and rarely travel further than my Leeds trails. Conceivably, I could do more riding in eg the Peaks / Calderdale way, but realistically, that wouldn’t be very often either. I would probably use it only half a dozen times a year …

I also like running my bike SS when I can, converting back to gears when planning steeper / gnarlier terrain.

So I’ve been wondering whether I should just go for a ‘Hardcore HT’ as one ‘do it all bike’. Something a bit slacker than my Boardman, with more travel (140mm) and with good clearance to get some bigger tyres (2.4ish) when I need to take the sting out of the gnarlier trails. A frame with convertible dropouts would be good, so I can change between geared and SS.

So, the options are:

1. Keep the current Boardman, keep it SS and use for solely local riding, and put £600-£800 into a used FS bike … or …
2. Sell the Boardman (I guess I might get £200-£300 for it?) add the £600-£800 (total £800 - £1100), and go for a Hardcore HT – either complete (probably used) bike, or build it up with a mix of used and new bits.

So, if you were me, what would you do? And suggestions for frames / bikes that would fit into either of the above options.

Thanks

Twelly

You could look at some slack hardtail frames plus a longer fork and transfer everything else over from the boardman. Less to buy and you would be left with a boardman frame and fork to shift to recoup some money. Just an idea.

I have just ordered a Cotic BFe with the plan of building it up with bits from my Meta 55, keep the Meta frame and switch back to that frame if I ever fancy it. The Cotic Soul might be more suitable from what you have said though. Also look at Stanton, Charge and On One frames.

paulneenan76

Check the threads in my signature for an idea - moved from entry level hardtail that I'd added bits to, then bought an On One Carbon 456 and Rock Shox Revelation forks and swapped what i could do, over. Did it within a "Mrs friendly" budget.

Check out the hardcore hardtails thread for other frame ideas.

Paul

arran77

TwellySmat wrote:

You could look at some slack hardtail frames plus a longer fork and transfer everything else over from the boardman. Less to buy and you would be left with a boardman frame and fork to shift to recoup some money. Just an idea.

I have just ordered a Cotic BFe.......

I'd go with TwellySmat's advice but then I'm biased

jimothy78

kevinharley wrote:

Now … whilst I am sure that [A full susser] would be a nice thing to have, I’m also wondering whether I’d really need one.

Clearly not. Sounds like you enjoy the simpler side of things, and you obviously ride well enough to not need a FS on (at least) 90% of the trails you're ever likely to ride, so why go FS for the sake of it. Plus by not spending money on rear suspension, there's more in the pot for the things you do need (or want).

Twelly

jimothy78 wrote:

kevinharley wrote:

Now … whilst I am sure that [A full susser] would be a nice thing to have, I’m also wondering whether I’d really need one.

Clearly not. Sounds like you enjoy the simpler side of things, and you obviously ride well enough to not need a FS on (at least) 90% of the trails you're ever likely to ride, so why go FS for the sake of it. Plus by not spending money on rear suspension, there's more in the pot for the things you do need (or want).

Not to mention less weight, less to go wrong, easier to clean, easier up the climbs (most of the time)...

...I have a big 140mm trail bike by the way! It's not that I don't love riding it, but 70% of the riding I do, I think to myself 'I'm making this harder and more complicated than it has to be'. My BFe will become my do it all bike with the Meta being built up when I have a big trail centre weekend planned (Eg. South Wales in May)

lawman

I'm loving my BFe so far, much better than the carbon 456 I used to own. I also have a longish travel FS and I must admit I spend more time on it than the hardtails I've owned at the same time, but if I was on a budget like yours a quality hardtail like the BFe would be spot on. Could get a nice build if you sold your boardman, have a 1x10 setup for big days and an SS kit for when you fancy it.

Kiliscott

Hi lawman, what do you find makes the bfe better than the c456?

lawman

Kiliscott wrote:

Hi lawman, what do you find makes the bfe better than the c456?

It's a lot comfier than the on one, the 456 rode pretty harshly and it ruined my back on longer rides. It's a decent bike for short blasts but for longer rides the BFe is far better. They look amazing too!

passout

You could sell the Boardman and go for this: http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/produ ... _2012_Bike

At first glance oloks very similar but the angles are very slack on the Whyte - I have one and mostly ride it in the Lakes where it shines (the bike not the lakes). A real do it all bike that can cope with the rough stuff. Plenty of reviews on it.

Either that or get a used LT hardtail (eg a 456) & keep the Boardman.

kevinharley

Thanks for all the advice people.

Interesting that no one who's commented has attempted to talk me into the benefits of FS!!

I'm still open-minded (ish), but think that a longertravel HT is where I'll be heading ... (although I'm prepared to listen to anyone advocating FS)

Now, seen a few adverts for used Cotic BfE's / On One 456's / Orange Crush etc and reckon I could get a tidy and decent spec model in the £600-£800 price range ...

But I can't help thinking that if I'm going to get a new (to me) do it all bike, it makes sense to go for the 650b option. I've no complaints about 26 wheels and always ridden them, but kinda feel if I'm going to invest in a new bike, it makes sense, not cos its a new fad, but becasue it does seem that 650b will offer some advantages and a good compromise ...

On One is launching the 456 Evo in the 650 wheel size at the end of next month:

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOO45650BD ... ntain-bike

RS Sektor fork, Shimano Deore kit etc, £899. To me, it looks a decent spec (my Boardman Team HT was the same price in 2012, and has RS Recon fork, SRAM X5/X7 drivetrain and Avid brakes)

What do people think of the spec for that price; does it represent reasonable/good value for money? What, if anything, would be a significantly better new spec at that price (£800 - £1100), either in 26 or 650 flavour.

Also, what other long-travel HT's should I be looking at (either new / used)?

Cheers

Twelly

kevinharley wrote:

On One is launching the 456 Evo in the 650 wheel size at the end of next month:

Good value. I'd happily buy one if I was in the market for a new bike! Cant comment on the frame personally but people seem to like them for the price.

kevinharley

TwellySmat wrote:

I have just ordered a Cotic BFe ... The Cotic Soul might be more suitable from what you have said though. Also look at Stanton, Charge and On One frames.

What is the difference between the Bfe and the Soul ... both are suitable for long travel forks aren't they??

supersonic

Bfe is beefed up, heavier frame. Same geo.

Twelly

Different steels used on different tubes to make it heavier/stronger/cheaper.

Soul will take 100-140mm fork, BFe 100-160mm

kevinharley

Cheers SS - but the Soul is still hard(ish) hitting ... (and more expensive from what i can see?)

supersonic

Yes, it's still a tough bike. More flex in it due to the less weight. I'd prefer the bfe if I was thrashing them though.

kevinharley

Thinking the on-one 45650b I linked to earlier looks pretty good as a 'new bike' option ... but ... anyone had experience of the on one 456 frame AND the cotic Bfe / Soul? Given that they (the Cotic's) are both more expensive frames, are they likely to give a noticeably better / more compliant ride, or be noticeably lighter?

Also, the On One comes with the RS Sektor forks ... are these any good? I've only got 120 Recon Solo Air to compare them to, so presumably the Sektors will be a step up from these? Are RS Revelations a significant and worthwhile improvement over the Sektors?

I guess I'm trying to work out whether £900 on the on one 45650b is a good deal, or whether its worth going to say £1100-£1200 for a better frame and fork, and if so, what exactly are the benefits?

Thanks

Kowalski675

kevinharley wrote:

Also, the On One comes with the RS Sektor forks ... are these any good?

Which version? I have Sektor TK (the simple one) on my Boardman, which feel pretty good to me, but would probably be slated by good riders. Sektor RL gets a good review in the forks group test in this month's What MTB, described as a bargain.

kevinharley

Kowalski675 wrote:

kevinharley wrote:

Also, the On One comes with the RS Sektor forks ... are these any good?

Which version? I have Sektor TK (the simple one) on my Boardman, which feel pretty good to me, but would probably be slated by good riders. Sektor RL gets a good review in the forks group test in this month's What MTB, described as a bargain.

Rockshox Sektor RL 140mm Solo Air / Tapered / 27.5 Inch with 15mm Axle / Black / Crown Adjust

Kowalski675

kevinharley wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

kevinharley wrote:

Also, the On One comes with the RS Sektor forks ... are these any good?

Which version? I have Sektor TK (the simple one) on my Boardman, which feel pretty good to me, but would probably be slated by good riders. Sektor RL gets a good review in the forks group test in this month's What MTB, described as a bargain.

Rockshox Sektor RL 140mm Solo Air / Tapered / 27.5 Inch with 15mm Axle / Black / Crown Adjust

The model tested in the mag is 140mm Sektor Gold RL Solo Air 15mm Maxle crown adjust (motion control damper). Revelation RCT3 is in the test too (Pike comes out as the winner).

punkatron1

Kowalski675 wrote:

kevinharley wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

kevinharley wrote:

Also, the On One comes with the RS Sektor forks ... are these any good?

Which version? I have Sektor TK (the simple one) on my Boardman, which feel pretty good to me, but would probably be slated by good riders. Sektor RL gets a good review in the forks group test in this month's What MTB, described as a bargain.

Rockshox Sektor RL 140mm Solo Air / Tapered / 27.5 Inch with 15mm Axle / Black / Crown Adjust

The model tested in the mag is 140mm Sektor Gold RL Solo Air 15mm Maxle crown adjust (motion control damper). Revelation RCT3 is in the test too (Pike comes out as the winner).

The RL is good, the TK not so much. The TK seems to dive a lot or to compensate you have to have them setup too hard to make use of the travel. I really rate the RL.

Kowalski675

punkatron1 wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

kevinharley wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

kevinharley wrote:

Also, the On One comes with the RS Sektor forks ... are these any good?

Which version? I have Sektor TK (the simple one) on my Boardman, which feel pretty good to me, but would probably be slated by good riders. Sektor RL gets a good review in the forks group test in this month's What MTB, described as a bargain.

Rockshox Sektor RL 140mm Solo Air / Tapered / 27.5 Inch with 15mm Axle / Black / Crown Adjust

The model tested in the mag is 140mm Sektor Gold RL Solo Air 15mm Maxle crown adjust (motion control damper). Revelation RCT3 is in the test too (Pike comes out as the winner).

The RL is good, the TK not so much. The TK seems to dive a lot or to compensate you have to have them setup too hard to make use of the travel. I really rate the RL.

I don't weigh much though, and I'm not a hard rider (I'm a 40 year old newbie), so set at 20% sag to give decent small bump compliance I'm using almost all the travel, but not quite bottoming them out. I'm not hitting anything particularly hard though (no drops/jumps of more than a couple of feet vertically). The Revelation RCT3 on the new Pro FS feels noticably plusher though, even just messing around on Halfords shopfloor. Later this year I might enquire about adding the RL spec damper to my fork. Actually, I forgot - I'm 41 now.

kevinharley

Update:

Went into the Planet X / On One showroom yesterday and ordered the On One 45650b in Raw finish ...

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOO45650BD ... ntain-bike

Added £150 for a reverb dropper post, taking the price to £1050 (which is a LOT for me! :shock: ), but overall think it looks a decent spec for the money, and hopefully this will be offset a little by selling my Boardman Team! Also, nothing to pay for 6 months!

On the website, it states that these won't be available until end March. On another forum, I read that the reason for the delay was to do with unavailability of Sektor forks, but they are now expected sooner. Was given a build date of 27th Feb, so hopefully will be delivered a bit after that

Have (hopefully) attached an image of the frame ...

Will let you know how it rides when its delivered ...